celluloid

navihawk

navihawk

Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
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How stable is celluloid? I know it is processed with oil or solvent type process. I currently store what few I have in a wooden box, felt lined.It appears to be a durable plastic besides the heat/sun factor.Any good notes on preservation and or treatment?
 
Celluloid is NOT stable! Sometimes it appears so for many years, then it goes bad. No-one has found the definitive reasons yet. Some of the old Remington cell seems to hang in there, and a lot has to do with how well it was cured (whatever that is) when it was made.
It's pretty, but its beauty is fickle. There are some good articles on it.
I had some knives made, using two different batches of Candystripe. One is still O.K. but the others are all gone off. Never again.
 
I do not know what it is, but many of the ones I have exhibit shrinkage.
It is not terrible, but It is happening at a slow pace and I am not sure how to stop it.

I have never had any go through nasty decomposition that I have read about, but the fume part I read about seemed reasonable; so I keep the celluloid ones away from the natural and synthetic ones when I put them away.
 
Thats great advice Bastid, thanks.I've bought some with shrinkage already on them, I figure if they're cheap enough the beauty of them are worth it.
What happens with nasty decomposition?
Thanks guys.
 
What I have read has stated that it can decompose or decay and that the fumes either from the celluloid or it's decomposition can affect the steel of other knives.
 
This reply isn't just adout celluloid but eveyone will be thinking scale problems in general. The link below goes to the Buck site where I did a test on old Delrin with discoloration. I believe it is also like celluloid and 'de-gasses' in confined spaces. A mineral oil treatment put it back to normal. At least for a while.
Have my granddads 808Y Schrade that I think is 'loid' and am dosing it with wax and mineral oil just in case it might help. 300$s

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=526265
 
I will tell you from first hand experience that the gas coming off the celluloid will affect any exposed parts of the knife and those around it with pitting of the steel...

Sunburst
 
The book 'Dice - by Ricky jay' has some good photos of what happens when celluloid decomposes releasing nitric acid.
 
Last year a member of my knife club asked us all to give him some knives with deteriorated celluloid handles. He put together an impressive display for one of our shows. I will see if he has some pictures.
 
navihawk,

I see you have gotten some good answers to your questions here..

I believe out of all the posts thus far, waynorth likely stumbled onto the reason that some celluloid decays more rapidly than other celluloid.. The curing process varied quite a bit early on. It is amazing to see some examples of vintage Remington pocket knives with celluloid scales that are nearly still perfect. While others from different manufacturers that were produced much later decay much faster.

I can tell you from experience that putting celluloid in a mineral oil bath will not help its decay or restore it. Quite the contrary, it will work against restoration. So don't do it.. Several years ago I did not know this to be true. However, waynorth pointed it out to me somewhere along the line here at bf on a thread or two, and of coarse I had to find out for myself.. I put an old celluloid(Will Rogers pen knife from the 1950's) knife into a mineral oil bath and it actually turned the resin into a gooey substance consistent with 2 part epoxy in its initial mixed stage.

The best way I have found to store them thus far is to (1) separate the Cell knives from any of the others you have in natural scales. (2) Keep them as far apart from each other as possible. (3) Oil the steel (not the Cell) much more often than you would knives dressed in natural handles. (4) Keep them well ventilated and away from sunlight, heat and exposure to any extreme temperatures.. (5) And just basically keep an eye on them.

Best,

Anthony
 
Thanks sunnyd. I remember you mentioning mineral oil and celluloid don't mix in another thread. I've machined delrin before and know thats fairly impervious to oils & stuff.I keep them in an old box I'm gonna post up on that box thread when I gets the time. Drawers have some airspace. Right now I'm waiting for a small Kabar stockman to come, and it's either bone or black composition. How is black composition as far as stability?

Smilin-knife, got that link in my favorites, thanks. Interesting reading about horn in there.
63fd_1.jpg
 
Good to know on the 'loid. Grandpa's 808 will keep out of the oil and in its own airy place. Delrin is a different cat, not chemically altered by the oil, hence it's industrial uses. I suspect the oil just lifts the deposits. Looks like you can't go wrong with dry ventilation and gentle blade oil. 300$s
 
I've never had a problem with Delrin. Only Celluloid. Some people swear by using Semi Chrome on there celluloid keeps them from breaking down. I don't know if this is true or not Seems to me that it would help it to break down faster. As far as I know, there isn't anything that can be done to stop it from decomposing once it decides to start. I don't know of anything that you can do that will prevent it. The advice given so far in this thread is about all you can do. If I had a nice Remington with celluloid scales that was in great shape I certainly wouldn't do anything to it other than storing it as suggested above.
Greg
 
They make new ones like Case out of corolon. I think corolon is a brand name for polycarbonate, like lexan ect.
 
Bastid said:
I do not know what it is, but many of the ones I have exhibit shrinkage.
It is not terrible, but It is happening at a slow pace and I am not sure how to stop it.

I have never had any go through nasty decomposition that I have read about, but the fume part I read about seemed reasonable; so I keep the celluloid ones away from the natural and synthetic ones when I put them away.
Click to expand...

I have had at least one knife that suffered from "nasty decomposition". It was a Shapleigh (?) "Diamond Edge" that had its scales almost completely disappear! Too bad. It was my dad's.
 
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