Ceramic IKBS?

bpeezer

bpeezer

Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
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Does anyone think it would be interesting to experiment with replacing IKBS bearings with loose ceramic bearings? I had the thought yesterday, but I'm not entirely sure I'm sold on the idea yet. Part of the problem is that 1/16 ceramic bearings cost just over 39 times as much as steel bearings ($19.49 for ten ceramic bearings vs. $4.95 for a hundred steel bearings).

Will the ceramic bearings make a difference, or would I just be wasting my money?
 
What kind of difference are you expecting anyway? For me, I'd only expect the pivot to become more fragile, and I suspect the ceramic bearings might wear down the steel. It might be useful only if the rest of the knife is non-magnetic, but other than that...
 
Curtiss makes his knives exactly like that...check out his F3 line of knives. Microtech uses ceramic, but they are encased in a carrier instead...easier for a production company to assemble. David (Curtiss) assembles all of his by hand.
 
Curtiss pivot balls are NOT ceramic (they're plain old 1/16'' steel balls), only the detent ball is ceramic - which is common for a lot of manufacturers.
 
Noctis3880 said:
What kind of difference are you expecting anyway? For me, I'd only expect the pivot to become more fragile, and I suspect the ceramic bearings might wear down the steel. It might be useful only if the rest of the knife is non-magnetic, but other than that...
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Ceramic bearings have a higher sphericity than steel bearings, which basically just means that they roll a little bit better (might be undetectable without instrumentation...but I'm curious). Also, since they are harder than steel they have less micro-deformation due to stress so they work better under loading as well (definitely undetectable without instrumentation...but I'm still curious). To top things off, they will be less likely to wear on the steel since they have a smoother surface finish.

But what kind of difference am I expecting? Absolutely nothing, I'm just curious :D
 
onespdfrk said:
Curtiss pivot balls are NOT ceramic (they're plain old 1/16'' steel balls), only the detent ball is ceramic - which is common for a lot of manufacturers.
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If they were plain old steel balls they would be magnetic, which mine were not...
 
I think the Grismo Norseman has ceramic bearings as an upgrade option?

I recall reading somewhere that they don't require lube but I have no idea if that's true or not.

Edit: Curtiss knives website says "IKBS ceramic bearing system" for his customs, not sure about the F3 line.
 
JDunn709 said:
I think the Grismo Norseman has ceramic bearings as an upgrade option?

I recall reading somewhere that they don't require lube but I have no idea if that's true or not.

Edit: Curtiss knives website says "IKBS ceramic bearing system" for his customs, not sure about the F3 line.
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Lubrication allows surfaces to slide easily against each other, as it lowers the coefficient of friction. Ideally, bearings roll the entire time, and never slide. Therefore, lubrication would be completely worthless for the bearings, and could in fact decrease their effectiveness. Unfortunately, there is something called surface roughness, and that gets in the way of bearings rolling perfectly.

All that being said, I prefer to treat things as an ideal system as much as possible :)
 
bpeezer said:
Ceramic bearings have a higher sphericity than steel bearings, which basically just means that they roll a little bit better (might be undetectable without instrumentation...but I'm curious). Also, since they are harder than steel they have less micro-deformation due to stress so they work better under loading as well (definitely undetectable without instrumentation...but I'm still curious). To top things off, they will be less likely to wear on the steel since they have a smoother surface finish.

But what kind of difference am I expecting? Absolutely nothing, I'm just curious :D
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I guess whether it's worth it or not depends mostly on the knife in question and the total number of bearings you'll need. I doubt extra smoothness is something you'll notice unless you're opening something like a 4-inch+ blade, and then there's the question of the total cost of the upgrade. Honestly though, I don't see my Kershaw TILT or Galyean Pro Turbulence popping open any smoother. Given the obvious differences between the ZT 0561 and 0560CF however, other factors like blade finish and detent strength would seem to play bigger roles in how smoothly the IKBS works.
 
Noctis3880 said:
I guess whether it's worth it or not depends mostly on the knife in question and the total number of bearings you'll need. I doubt extra smoothness is something you'll notice unless you're opening something like a 4-inch+ blade, and then there's the question of the total cost of the upgrade. Honestly though, I don't see my Kershaw TILT or Galyean Pro Turbulence popping open any smoother. Given the obvious differences between the ZT 0561 and 0560CF however, other factors like blade finish and detent strength would seem to play bigger roles in how smoothly the IKBS works.
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I agree with you that other factors will play a bigger role, I just want to know if it makes any difference at all. I don't think it will necessarily be any smoother, just....different. My Microtech with ceramic bearings in the pivot doesn't feel smoother than my IKBS knives or my Spyderco Domino, but something about the pivot feels different. The more I think about it, the more curious I get, so I may end up doing it regardless of cost :o
 
bpeezer said:
I agree with you that other factors will play a bigger role, I just want to know if it makes any difference at all. I don't think it will necessarily be any smoother, just....different. My Microtech with ceramic bearings in the pivot doesn't feel smoother than my IKBS knives or my Spyderco Domino, but something about the pivot feels different. The more I think about it, the more curious I get, so I may end up doing it regardless of cost :o
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If you've got the disposable income, go for it:thumbup:. Just don't forget to share pics;).
 
Just wanted to note that I installed ceramic bearings on 2 of my knives. A lambert snap, and a pohan leu bluephin. Here's what I found. Running the knife dry with ceramic bearings is as smooth or smoother than running the ikbs with steel balls that have lube.

I've tried all different lubes on ikbs with steel bearings and the best results I've seen were with crk flourinated grease. The ceramics dry are better than that and because I am able to run them dry, you notice a little more snap in the flipping. I also noticed that I can tighten the pivot more with ceramic which gives better lockup.

So let's review:

Pros of Ceramic:

1. No lube yields excellent results
2. Slightly better action on flippers
3. Less wear on components because of increased sphericity
4. Better lockup

Cons:
1. Price (ceramic bearings are expensive about 9 times more)
2. Difficult to install (only if your running them dry)

I feel that for the Sole benefit of better lockup it makes the upgrade worth it. I don't weigh price of the bearings that much considering if it's a custom what's another $15 for better bearings. That's my 2 cents
 
Fender0942 said:
Just wanted to note that I installed ceramic bearings on 2 of my knives. A lambert snap, and a pohan leu bluephin. Here's what I found. Running the knife dry with ceramic bearings is as smooth or smoother than running the ikbs with steel balls that have lube.

I've tried all different lubes on ikbs with steel bearings and the best results I've seen were with crk flourinated grease. The ceramics dry are better than that and because I am able to run them dry, you notice a little more snap in the flipping. I also noticed that I can tighten the pivot more with ceramic which gives better lockup.

So let's review:

Pros of Ceramic:

1. No lube yields excellent results
2. Slightly better action on flippers
3. Less wear on components because of increased sphericity
4. Better lockup

Cons:
1. Price (ceramic bearings are expensive about 9 times more)
2. Difficult to install (only if your running them dry)

I feel that for the Sole benefit of better lockup it makes the upgrade worth it. I don't weigh price of the bearings that much considering if it's a custom what's another $15 for better bearings. That's my 2 cents
Click to expand...

Sweet, thanks for sharing! Where did you get your bearings?
 
I got them from alpha knife supply. Pohan Leu directed me there. They're price was most reasonable I found.
 
Many makers that use IKBS are willing to put in Ceramic balls....well, to be more specific: silicon nitride ball bearings.

However, these are not cheap and as with everything else ball bearings have a degree of precision to what they are manufactured. So buying a quality product is going to cost you.
 
bpeezer said:
Does anyone think it would be interesting to experiment with replacing IKBS bearings with loose ceramic bearings? I had the thought yesterday, but I'm not entirely sure I'm sold on the idea yet. Part of the problem is that 1/16 ceramic bearings cost just over 39 times as much as steel bearings ($19.49 for ten ceramic bearings vs. $4.95 for a hundred steel bearings).

Will the ceramic bearings make a difference, or would I just be wasting my money?
Click to expand...


the thing that sucks about the IKBS system is that the bearing balls interact directly with the hardened surface of the tang of the blade around the pivot hole. knife companies don’t take the time to smooth that surface out. with the IKBS system you hear people say “it has a hydraulic like feel to it” which is actually the ball bearings binding up because they are getting caught in pits and lines in the steel. the solution is to buy a leather strip and some diamond past and mirror polish the area that interacts with the bearings. This is especially true for Boker Kwaikens because the whole thing has a heavy stone wash over rough planed aus8. when you first start to polish it back it will reveal how rough it is there. I’ve had this knife for about twelve years and I hated it so it was in perfect condition and I decided to put a ton of time into it. i’m not even close to done but i’m happy with it. i broke an inch off the blade to turn it into a wharncliffe and I turned the hollow grind into a full flat with no secondary bevel and I modified the thumb since into a wave opener and made a pinky choil in the handle and reshape the top of the handle to turn my orange g10 non flipping kwaiken into a flipper. Its not worth the time because the kwaiken sucks but I don’t hate it because it is a fun project knife.
 
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