Ceramic or Diamond Pull-Through Sharpeners.

[Odin's Son]

What do the pros think about Ceramic or Diamond Pull-Through Sharpeners? Are they better than carbide tungsten pull-throughs?

 

[parbajtor]

I'm not a pro, but there's no such thing as a "one size fits all" bevel angle. Maybe ceramic or diamond would make a less "butchered edge" but pull throughs in general are nasty.

 

[Odin's Son]

I'm not a pro, but there's no such thing as a "one size fits all" bevel angle. Maybe ceramic or diamond would make a less "butchered edge" but pull throughs in general are nasty.

Because of the angle?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The tungsten carbide pull-throughs, due to their 'unique' scissor-like arrangement of hard-edged inserts, are far more damaging to an edge. Most or all of the ceramic or diamond pull-throughs I've ever seen (I have some) use round rod-type inserts. Not nearly as damaging, because they don't grab and pinch like the 'scissors' of the carbide inserts, which will literally rip the steel in a direction perpendicular to the cutting edge. The round inserts aren't able to 'grab' the edge in the same way, therefore they're not able to rip the steel in this ugly fashion.

That being said, I've never really liked how a blade edge 'bottoms out' in the V formed by the crossed inserts, of any type of pull-through. It limits how fine the finished edge will be (results will always be mediocre, at best), and obviously offers no angle option but the fixed, set angle set by the 'V'. When crossed in this 'V' arrangement, just a tiny bit of variation in angle control will cause the apex to be rounded against one side of the V, while the other side is grinding against the shoulder of the bevel on the opposite side of the blade. Compare this to something like a Sharpmaker or other 'V-crock' style sharpener, which allow enough rod length and/or rod separation at the bottom to avoid 'bottoming out' and rounding the apex from one side, if the blade is rotated too shallow on the other side (contacting only the shoulder).


David

 

[richard thurman]

I have made my own Ceramic knife sharpener and that is all that I have used. I use it on my Kershaw leeks, case and even the cheap china crap knifes. I don't see what the big problem is with them. here is a picture of what it looks like.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I have made my own Ceramic knife sharpener and that is all that I have used. I use it on my Kershaw leeks, case and even the cheap china crap knifes. I don't see what the big problem is with them. here is a picture of what it looks like.

No problem at all, with that type, when used like most 'V-crock' sharpeners (Sharpmaker, Lansky Turnbox, etc.), by sliding a blade edge down the rod, toward the bottom of the crossed 'V', one side of the bevel at a time. Configured like yours, it's not actually a 'pull-through' sharpener, as they're normally used.

But that's not what the OP was referring to (assuming, anyway), in which the very, very short inserts necessitate placing the blade edge directly at the bottom of the 'V', and then dragging (pulling) the blade through it. Here's an example pic of this type, seen with both the ceramic (top) and carbide (bottom) inserts:

David

 

[Odin's Son]

Hi, thank you for your answers David, very knowledgeable. And I can really see you're obsessed with edges.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Hi, thank you for your answers David, very knowledgeable. And I can really see you're obsessed with edges.

You're very welcome.


David

 

[richard thurman]

No problem at all, with that type, when used like most 'V-crock' sharpeners (Sharpmaker, Lansky Turnbox, etc.), by sliding a blade edge down the rod, toward the bottom of the crossed 'V', one side of the bevel at a time. Configured like yours, it's not actually a 'pull-through' sharpener, as they're normally used.

But that's not what the OP was referring to (assuming, anyway), in which the very, very short inserts necessitate placing the blade edge directly at the bottom of the 'V', and then dragging (pulling) the blade through it. Here's an example pic of this type, seen with both the ceramic (top) and carbide (bottom) inserts:

David

yes but you just look at the sharpening post they all put down the pull though sharpeners . that is the point I was trying to make.

 

[shecky]

Ceramic and diamond pull through sharpeners are most effective when the knives needing sharpening are needing not much sharpening. The ceramic one especially are very fine.

I generally find tungsten carbide pull throughs much more effective, if you know how to use them. Which is where the problem lies with most knife nuts. Most folk use them with with gorilla-like finesse and then freak out at the visible shavings peeled off the blade edge. But the truth is that anyone can just as easily damage a knife edge with any method of sharpening, be it stone, diamond, ceramic, etc.

One area where pull through sharpeners of any kind tend to fail is making the edge roll or even chip. The reason is that the elements used are generally much harder than steel and are concentrated into a small area, possibly a single point. Edge rolling is traditionally considered a step in sharpening using stones, called burring. But removing the burr is exceedingly hard with a ceramic pull through (kind of tricky, but usually doable with carbide pull through). The result is that for a lot of people, pull through sharpeners are "good enough" and explain why they remain popular tools. But knife nuts are more picky and snobbish. And never bother how to optimize their technique with a $4 tool, jumping immediately into the pricier system.

 

[REK Knives]

Cuz this is what they do

 

[shecky]

Cuz this is what they do

Here's where I call BS. This is useful as ad copy, so it's wise to break out the skept-o-meter when evaluating.

We're presented with three micrographs of edges to compare the virtues of the Wicked Edge to pull through and electric sharpeners. While it claims they're at 230x magnification, it looks to me that the pull through and electric pix are under a higher magnification than the Wicked Edge. One could easily use the same trick to "prove" the Wicked Edge is inferior, since all it will take to show a jagged edge is enough magnification. Strike one.

The only virtue one can truly glean from the ad is that the Wicked Edge produces an edge bevel that looks more uniform. It shows nothing about sharpness. Strike two.

It's not clear the advantages amount to much for most folks. Most people don't evaluate their knives by how they look under a microscope. Instead they go by how sharp they are in actual use. This is why pull through sharpeners are successful devices. Take a dull knife, pull it through a few times, and it's sharper than it was before, very little skill or time needed.

Wicked Edge is a fine product. My only criticism is that, like most sharpening systems, it teaches you a recipe. One that's linked to a gadget, in this case. Which is fine, but as a skill, that's no better than using a pull through. Ultimately, when one learns why the recipe works, your skill makes you independent of gadgets, to the point where you can be successful using any gadget or method. Including the lowly pull through.

 

[Razorsharp-Travis]

Here's where I call BS. This is useful as ad copy, so it's wise to break out the skept-o-meter when evaluating.

We're presented with three micrographs of edges to compare the virtues of the Wicked Edge to pull through and electric sharpeners. While it claims they're at 230x magnification, it looks to me that the pull through and electric pix are under a higher magnification than the Wicked Edge. One could easily use the same trick to "prove" the Wicked Edge is inferior, since all it will take to show a jagged edge is enough magnification. Strike one.

The only virtue one can truly glean from the ad is that the Wicked Edge produces an edge bevel that looks more uniform. It shows nothing about sharpness. Strike two.

It's not clear the advantages amount to much for most folks. Most people don't evaluate their knives by how they look under a microscope. Instead they go by how sharp they are in actual use. This is why pull through sharpeners are successful devices. Take a dull knife, pull it through a few times, and it's sharper than it was before, very little skill or time needed.

Wicked Edge is a fine product. My only criticism is that, like most sharpening systems, it teaches you a recipe. One that's linked to a gadget, in this case. Which is fine, but as a skill, that's no better than using a pull through. Ultimately, when one learns why the recipe works, your skill makes you independent of gadgets, to the point where you can be successful using any gadget or method. Including the lowly pull through.

To call that advertising BS is ...bs

I dont care WHAT magnification you use, you will never make an edge like this

look worse than this

ALl the pics in that advert are clearly in about the same magnification, look at the bevel width. Unless you are assuming that pic 1 and 2 were done on a zero grind with a microbevel and number 3 was done on a knife with a primary grind 5mm wide

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

There's some more detail about the photos in the 'ad copy' posted above, in this 2009 blog post by Clay Allison:

http://sharpeningtechniques.blogspot.com/2009/12/micro-photos-of-identical-knives-after.html

The photos are legit, BTW, with testing done on identical knives, sharpened by different methods. Not so much an issue of finished sharpness, but of durability & longevity of the edge after sharpening. That's the biggest difference with the pull-throughs, as their 'sharp' finished edges don't last near as long, with lots of weakened steel left behind (due to ripping of the edge and/or lengthwise scoring of the bevels), and usually require complete re-grinding of the bevels to fix them. If 'fixed' with a pull-through each time, that shortens the useful life of the blade considerably, ripping away that much steel every time the edge needs touching up.


David

 

[Noctis3880]

It's not clear the advantages amount to much for most folks. Most people don't evaluate their knives by how they look under a microscope. Instead they go by how sharp they are in actual use. This is why pull through sharpeners are successful devices. Take a dull knife, pull it through a few times, and it's sharper than it was before, very little skill or time needed.

In what context? I would argue that the reason why pull through sharpeners are "successful" devices is because most people don't know how to sharpen a knife. That and because most knives from grocery stores, Walmart, and Costco are so soft that you could sharpen it on the sidewalk with no problem:thumbup:. Otherwise the fine grit abrasives in the ceramic pull throughs would never make a dent in say, S30V.

The resulting edge is "usable" in the sense that my coworkers can still "cut" with their knives, but they almost always cut themselves whenever I sharpen their knives, so whether the edge is actually usable or whether they've been brute forcing it the whole time is pretty clear at that point. I'm pretty tempted to sharpen all the knives in the store(of which there are plenty in Deli, Meat, Seafood, Sushi, and Produce) and see how many people cut themselves:thumbup:.