Ceramic Rod or Water Stone?

[clanderson]

Hey folks.

I'm looking to get a better way to maintain an edge on my knives and have narrowed the choices down to either a ceramic rod or a water stone (good choice for water stone?).

Maybe I'm not thinking of something, just looking for some input.
Any advice?

 

[Jason B.]

Two completely different tools for completely different tasks.

A ceramic honing rod is to keep a edge sharp and best used in a professional kitchen where going to a stone is not always practical. Once a edge is dull however, it will do very little to restore it.

The Waterstone you have linked is a very cheap low quality waterstone that would be nothing more than a waste of money.

I would recommend a bench stone but knowing your budget would help.

 

[droptrd]

You can get a descent combination oil stone for that price that will serve you much better.

 

[clanderson]

Two completely different tools for completely different tasks.

A ceramic honing rod is to keep a edge sharp and best used in a professional kitchen where going to a stone is not always practical. Once a edge is dull however, it will do very little to restore it.

The Waterstone you have linked is a very cheap low quality waterstone that would be nothing more than a waste of money.

I would recommend a bench stone but knowing your budget would help.

"Nothing more than a waste of money" huh? I don't know much about water stones but I'm not sure that's completely correct.. Unless we're entering snobbery territory haha.

Well, I'm not really sure of my budget quite yet. I was hoping ~$30 for a decent stone (doesn't need to be top of the line.. but also not a hunk of garbage) but I may be way low on that. My first priority is to get something I can use quickly to realign an edge on my knives. I'm coming from a lansky system with extremely tiny hones and I've moved beyond the need of an angle guide. That made me think of a ceramic rod; ease of use and quickly adjustable angles (free hand).

I don't want to get into a splitting hair argument about "jobs", but I also wanted a nice set of water stones to have for putting an edge on very dull knives. It only seemed practical to invest in a finer grit stone as well instead of a ceramic rod - but I don't know much about water stones.

You can get a descent combination oil stone for that price that will serve you much better.

I'm actually moving from oil and stone and wanting to try something different - that was the perfect choice for a long while though!

http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU ?

 

[Jason B.]

I sharpen professionally and use a vast array of japanese waterstones, I have used or own most of the popular stones on the market and I am giving you my educated opinion that the stone you have listed is not worth wasting your money on. At least get a brand name if your going with a cheap stone, King or Imanishi would be a good starting point.

Now, me personally, I like using good stones becaused I learned long ago that cheap stones provide cheap results and you will struggle to get a respectable edge. Buy good stones like Shapton or Naniwa and your frustrations will be much less. They also don't cost much more for a HUGE difference in edge quality and your overall ability to produce a sharp edge.

It's not being a snob it's being smart, buying for the future so you don't find yourself buying stones again. I've bought the cheap stone and learned the hard way, it's why I'm here trying to give advice on the things NOT to do.

 

[teranaut]

Surprisingly enough, I have one of the linked King brand 250/1k combination stones and get pretty decent results for the twenty bucks it cost me at a kitchen supply store. I have repaired numerous knives for people and restored a few of my own edges. It does not give a super fine finish though. A finer stone and an intermediary stone would be a good addition to this one. I understand King also makes a 4k/400 grit combination stone and have thought about finding one to give a whirl on. While not the BEST stone, I think it adequate for learning about waterstone sharpening and refining technique. I chose to do it this way so I didn't mangle a good stone with inexperience. If nothing else, it can be used later for a rough work stone. As Jason previously mentioned, the ceramic rod or 'crock stick' is primarily for touch-ups and will require more time and effort to sharpen a really dull knife. I think mine comes in somewhere between 800-1000 grit equivalent gauging from the scratch pattern it leaves.

 

[clanderson]

I sharpen professionally and use a vast array of japanese waterstones, I have used or own most of the popular stones on the market and I am giving you my educated opinion that the stone you have listed is not worth wasting your money on. At least get a brand name if your going with a cheap stone, King or Imanishi would be a good starting point.

Now, me personally, I like using good stones becaused I learned long ago that cheap stones provide cheap results and you will struggle to get a respectable edge. Buy good stones like Shapton or Naniwa and your frustrations will be much less. They also don't cost much more for a HUGE difference in edge quality and your overall ability to produce a sharp edge.

It's not being a snob it's being smart, buying for the future so you don't find yourself buying stones again. I've bought the cheap stone and learned the hard way, it's why I'm here trying to give advice on the things NOT to do.

Surprisingly enough, I have one of the linked King brand 250/1k combination stones and get pretty decent results for the twenty bucks it cost me at a kitchen supply store. I have repaired numerous knives for people and restored a few of my own edges. It does not give a super fine finish though. A finer stone and an intermediary stone would be a good addition to this one. I understand King also makes a 4k/400 grit combination stone and have thought about finding one to give a whirl on. While not the BEST stone, I think it adequate for learning about waterstone sharpening and refining technique. I chose to do it this way so I didn't mangle a good stone with inexperience. If nothing else, it can be used later for a rough work stone. As Jason previously mentioned, the ceramic rod or 'crock stick' is primarily for touch-ups and will require more time and effort to sharpen a really dull knife. I think mine comes in somewhere between 800-1000 grit equivalent gauging from the scratch pattern it leaves.

Thanks for the info about the King!

I understand the stones I listed are sub-par quality, but as I said, I'm new to stones and don't want to go big for my first set.

I can get a fantastic edge on the bottom of a coffee mug, I have a hard time believing I need to spend hundreds to maintain an edge - though not necessary, that's exactly where the love of blades will take you!

I appreciate all the advice given; I'll definitely go cheap for now, but look to get some nicer stones like Shapton or Chosera in the future

 

[Jason B.]

If your going to get a king combo stone get this one.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000248XEY/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1417128929&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX200_QL40

Your also going to need a lapping stone to keep it flat
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BB2SNLO/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1417129223&sr=8-3&pi=AC

Just know King stones will struggle with modern alloy steels, great with softer German steels or carbon steels however. If you need a coarse stone get a diamond plate it lasts longer and stays flat which is important.

 

[evosbu1]

Hey folks.

I'm looking to get a better way to maintain an edge on my knives and have narrowed the choices down to either a ceramic rod or a water stone (good choice for water stone?).

Maybe I'm not thinking of something, just looking for some input.
Any advice?

Don't use ceramic on the high vanadium knives, you'll be there forever.

 

[clanderson]

If your going to get a king combo stone get this one.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000248XEY/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1417128929&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX200_QL40

Your also going to need a lapping stone to keep it flat
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BB2SNLO/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1417129223&sr=8-3&pi=AC

Just know King stones will struggle with modern alloy steels, great with softer German steels or carbon steels however. If you need a coarse stone get a diamond plate it lasts longer and stays flat which is important.

Thanks for all the advice Jason - appreciate the chance to learn from folks like you.