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Ceramic Sharpeners......Test results
- Thread starter 1whobuys
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 3,021
I have been very happy with mine.
It is very light, durable, and effective.
As soon as I got it, I bent it. It didn't affect its ceramic coating at all. I just bent it back straight.
It fits nicely in the front pocket of the Busse sheaths, and because it is so thin doesn't take up too much space. The design is a solid one. The edges are very useful as a steel and a sharpener, and are great for touchups in the field. THe edges are also great for serrations. The flats are also nice for sharpening. I have not used the groove yet, but can see how useful it could be.
The grit choice is a good one, I think. Quite fine. I can put a decent edge on knives with it, but not hair-popping sharp. That is only due to my lack of sharpening skill with hand held sharpeners. Perhaps if the sharpener had a pre-set V in it, I could do better. Also, I'm sure my skill will improve with time.
The only change I would make would be to round the corners a bit so they don't catch on things.
Another effective design, IMHO, would be a thin aluminum/ceramic rod (perhaps 1/4" in diameter) but quite long, maybe six inches. This would make sharpening a little easier and quicker, but isn't as compact or as versatile.
It is very light, durable, and effective.
As soon as I got it, I bent it. It didn't affect its ceramic coating at all. I just bent it back straight.
It fits nicely in the front pocket of the Busse sheaths, and because it is so thin doesn't take up too much space. The design is a solid one. The edges are very useful as a steel and a sharpener, and are great for touchups in the field. THe edges are also great for serrations. The flats are also nice for sharpening. I have not used the groove yet, but can see how useful it could be.
The grit choice is a good one, I think. Quite fine. I can put a decent edge on knives with it, but not hair-popping sharp. That is only due to my lack of sharpening skill with hand held sharpeners. Perhaps if the sharpener had a pre-set V in it, I could do better. Also, I'm sure my skill will improve with time.
The only change I would make would be to round the corners a bit so they don't catch on things.
Another effective design, IMHO, would be a thin aluminum/ceramic rod (perhaps 1/4" in diameter) but quite long, maybe six inches. This would make sharpening a little easier and quicker, but isn't as compact or as versatile.
I have been evaluating the durability, effectiveness, and ergonomics of this prototype knife sharpener for about one month. I've been coming up with any method I can to wear down my edges quickly, so that I can resharpen as much as possible, and my body is bald from edge-testing. (I actually prefer it that way when I'm living in the outdoors a lot; it's easier to deal with cleaning, sunscreen, and mosquito repellent.)
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The sharpener is about 1 inch wide, by 4 3/4 inches long, by 1/8 inch thick, with a deep V-shaped vertical groove running lengthwise down the middle of one side, and a hole drilled through the groove on one end. On my scale, it weighs exactly one ounce. It is made of an aluminum bar covered with fine ceramic.
I find the design to be very good, a very elegant solution to fusing the various design objectives required of the sharpener into a single object. Because it is flat, it has a maximum amount of usable surface area per volume (the opposite of a ceramic rod), making for plenty of usable sharpener space in an object small enough and light enough to fit into a BM-E, SH-E, or NO-E sheath pocket. The length is exactly long enough to just barely fit in the sheath pocket, and the width is just perfectly the widest you can go without making it a hassle to put into or withdraw from the sheath. The size, flatness, and smoothness allow for fitting lots else into your sheath. Because the edges are rounded, they can do double-duty sharpening Busse-style serrations, and triple duty as a rod for straightening edges. The V-shaped groove allows for fishing hook sharpening (didn't try it), and perhaps knife tip sharpening. So, it's very versatile. The size is just big enough for decent strokes of the blade over its surface, while still fitting comfortably in either the sheath pocket or pants pockets. The hole allows for keychain-type use. All in all, I like the design very much. My only concern about the design is that it is just slightly too long to fit into a sheath for the Satin Jack or Paul's Hatchet. (Which I want, Jerry!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Before I even came into possession of the sharpener, it came pre-durability-tested, compliments of the United States Postal Service. Apparently they didn't notice that there was a solid object in the envelope (which gives you some idea of how slender and light this sharpener is), and so they put it into some sort of sorting machine which requires bending. What I received from the post office wasn't an enveleope with a letter and a sharpener; I received a plastic bag with an apology from the Postal Service, filled with some shredded paper (Pieced together into an envelope and letter from Chuck)and a sharpener.
So how did the sharpener fare it's Postal Service-durability test? Beautifully: not a bend nor chip nor scratch--which impressed me, based on the extent of the damage to the paper part of the package.
I never did any destructive testing to the sharpener. I did the following: carry it in a pocket full of change for many hours over many days, carry it in a bag full of small camera gear and outdoor gear for many hours over about fifteen days, and sharpen with it a total of about 60 times.
Nothing chipped or significantly scratched the coating. Everything marked the coating with traces of metal worn off of the objects that bumped up against the sharpener. By the end of the testing period, the color of the sharpener had transformed from a bright white to a mottled grey, with considerable darkening on the edges. Also, the sharpener smoothed from about the texture of finished wood to about the texture of a fine China plate. The smoothening of the texture actually happened quite fast after very light use, but then stopped entirely for the rest of the testing period.
Overall, I was quite impressed with the durability. It seems that this sharpener should be able to handle many hundreds of sharpenings, and survive real field use. (It's survived mine.) I've been surprised with how chip resistant, scratch resistant, and wear resistant the ceramic coating is--surprised because the coating is VERY thin, a small fraction of a millimeter. My biggest concern about the durability is that the sharpener seems to be getting progressively more clogged with microscopic particles of metal. I don't know for sure, but I would assume that enough clogging with metal traces would reduce sharpening performance. I have tried cleaning it off--tried rubbing it on canvas, cordura, leather, and with a toothbrush. I've tried both dry and wet cleanings, with and without soap. Some particulate matter comes off, but most seems to be permanently lodged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how does it perform as a sharpener?
Before I answer that, I need to give you some background of my skills as an edge sharpener, and also need to explain my procedure for testing knife sharpness.
The main thing to tell you about my knife sharpening skills is that I really suck. I've had a Spyderco sharpener--widely considered to be easy to use--and never managed to successfully sharpen an edge with it. I've had a Lansky sharpener--supposedly foolproof--and never managed to successfully sharpen an edge with it. I've had various grits of whetstones; again, no success. In the end, I gave my sharpening equipment to my ex (http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=939030&size=lg), who does the sharpenings for me. She and her husband seem to be able to sharpen just fine with the same equipment.
As for my sharpness measurement method, I did it as follows: I tied a loop of Johnson & Johnson waxed dental floss to the lid of a sport-style water bottle. I lifted the water bottle (very gently and slowly) by means of the knife to be tested, edge facing up, slipped under the loop of dental floss. I added water to the water bottle in 3-5 gram increments, until the weight of the water bottle was enough pressure for the knife to cut the dental floss. Then I weighed the water bottle full of water.
Alright, onto testing the sharpness of my knives. At the beginning of the testing period, the first item I tried was my Paul's Hatchet. The first thing I did with the Paul's Hatchet was purposely dull it by "cutting" into a 60 grit grinding belt (Blade held perpendicular to the belt, belt NOT attached to a grinder). By this method, I rapidly removed the fine edge on my hatchet entirely. In accordance with my sharpness measurements, it took over 2.5 pounds of pressure on the dental floss for the edge to cut through it.
So then I went to work sharpening it back up with the new sharpener. I used trailing strokes at the beginning, then switched to edge-first strokes, slightly diagonally, with the sharpener resting on my knee. Perhaps it was because the edge was so significantly worn down, perhaps it was because I'm a numbskull at sharpening, but it took a long time, and many hundreds of strokes. In the end, however, I successfully restored the edge. Specifically, I got the edge to where it took 580 grams of pressure to cut the floss. To put this into perspective:
cutting at 595 grams=the dullest at which I can scrape shave body hair
cutting at 460 grams=the dullest at which I can easily shave body hair
cutting at 390 grams=brand new factory edge on Cold Steel Gunsite
So, as you can see, I was able to bring the extremely dull edge back to just barely scrape-shaving sharp. For me, that's a major success. I've never before managed to bring ANY knife back to shaving sharp, much less one that had been purposely dulled with a grinding belt!
I do, indeed, consider this sharpener easy to use, even by a total dolt at sharpening. There's just something about the size and shape of this sharpener that makes proper strokes come naturally. And, rested upon my thigh, it was easy to be sensitive to the sound change and the changes in friction when sharpening at the correct angle. I don't know how to properly articulate this, other than to say that this sharpener is "unusually sensitive" to the proper angle and motion.
Without going into a lot more blather about each of my sixty or so sharpenings, let me summarize a few details: I was consistently able to bring back a shaving-sharp edge using this sharpener. I was able to get sharper edges with progressive use, the sharpest edge achieved was able to cut dental floss with 480 grams of pressure. It was easiest to use with convex edges, but not bad for use with flat edges.
As for the less desirable aspects of this sharperner:
It does not seem able to create "hair-poppin", "scary sharp" edges. (Or, at least, I cannot do so with this.)
It is fine enough grit that major sharpening, edge repair, or reprofiling would take a huge amount of time. I'd say that such usage is not realistically practical with this sharpener. I am guessing that this sharpener is designed primarily for putting touch-ups on knives that already have decent edges on them.
Oddly, it does not seem as effective on other knives as on Busse INFI knives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A the very end of the testing period (the day before yesterday), I got a hold of a leather strop (a belt) and some Veritas green chrome stropping compound from Lee Valley. My intitial experiments with using this to strop knives that have been sharpened with the prototype sharpeners shows that such a method can produce VERY sharp knives. Specifically, I was able to bring my Busse knives to where they would cut the floss with 400 grams of pressure--just about as sharp as a Cold Steel fresh from the factory. This makes me wonder whether the green stropping compound on a leather belt could be used effectively without the sharpener. (A question that I cannot answer.) If it could, then it seems like bringing a glob of stropping compound would be even lighter and smaller than bringing the sharpener.
I have also experimented with Cliff Stamp's "sharpening for dummies" method of knife sharpening with a slack grinder belt (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208093&highlight=sharpening+dummies). I have found this method to be very easy, and yield moderately good results--sharpening well enough to produce edges which could cut dental floss with about 650 grams of pressure, a little below shaving sharp. While this method doesn't produce as good of edges, it still produces decent edges, and it weighs considerably less than the new sharpeners. It doesn't take up much space either--I'd say a tie between the two methods, spacewise. However, the grinding belts do wear out a lot more quickly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall, I'm quite pleased with the new sharpener. I'll be carrying mine in my sheath pocket.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The sharpener is about 1 inch wide, by 4 3/4 inches long, by 1/8 inch thick, with a deep V-shaped vertical groove running lengthwise down the middle of one side, and a hole drilled through the groove on one end. On my scale, it weighs exactly one ounce. It is made of an aluminum bar covered with fine ceramic.
I find the design to be very good, a very elegant solution to fusing the various design objectives required of the sharpener into a single object. Because it is flat, it has a maximum amount of usable surface area per volume (the opposite of a ceramic rod), making for plenty of usable sharpener space in an object small enough and light enough to fit into a BM-E, SH-E, or NO-E sheath pocket. The length is exactly long enough to just barely fit in the sheath pocket, and the width is just perfectly the widest you can go without making it a hassle to put into or withdraw from the sheath. The size, flatness, and smoothness allow for fitting lots else into your sheath. Because the edges are rounded, they can do double-duty sharpening Busse-style serrations, and triple duty as a rod for straightening edges. The V-shaped groove allows for fishing hook sharpening (didn't try it), and perhaps knife tip sharpening. So, it's very versatile. The size is just big enough for decent strokes of the blade over its surface, while still fitting comfortably in either the sheath pocket or pants pockets. The hole allows for keychain-type use. All in all, I like the design very much. My only concern about the design is that it is just slightly too long to fit into a sheath for the Satin Jack or Paul's Hatchet. (Which I want, Jerry!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Before I even came into possession of the sharpener, it came pre-durability-tested, compliments of the United States Postal Service. Apparently they didn't notice that there was a solid object in the envelope (which gives you some idea of how slender and light this sharpener is), and so they put it into some sort of sorting machine which requires bending. What I received from the post office wasn't an enveleope with a letter and a sharpener; I received a plastic bag with an apology from the Postal Service, filled with some shredded paper (Pieced together into an envelope and letter from Chuck)and a sharpener.
So how did the sharpener fare it's Postal Service-durability test? Beautifully: not a bend nor chip nor scratch--which impressed me, based on the extent of the damage to the paper part of the package.
I never did any destructive testing to the sharpener. I did the following: carry it in a pocket full of change for many hours over many days, carry it in a bag full of small camera gear and outdoor gear for many hours over about fifteen days, and sharpen with it a total of about 60 times.
Nothing chipped or significantly scratched the coating. Everything marked the coating with traces of metal worn off of the objects that bumped up against the sharpener. By the end of the testing period, the color of the sharpener had transformed from a bright white to a mottled grey, with considerable darkening on the edges. Also, the sharpener smoothed from about the texture of finished wood to about the texture of a fine China plate. The smoothening of the texture actually happened quite fast after very light use, but then stopped entirely for the rest of the testing period.
Overall, I was quite impressed with the durability. It seems that this sharpener should be able to handle many hundreds of sharpenings, and survive real field use. (It's survived mine.) I've been surprised with how chip resistant, scratch resistant, and wear resistant the ceramic coating is--surprised because the coating is VERY thin, a small fraction of a millimeter. My biggest concern about the durability is that the sharpener seems to be getting progressively more clogged with microscopic particles of metal. I don't know for sure, but I would assume that enough clogging with metal traces would reduce sharpening performance. I have tried cleaning it off--tried rubbing it on canvas, cordura, leather, and with a toothbrush. I've tried both dry and wet cleanings, with and without soap. Some particulate matter comes off, but most seems to be permanently lodged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So how does it perform as a sharpener?
Before I answer that, I need to give you some background of my skills as an edge sharpener, and also need to explain my procedure for testing knife sharpness.
The main thing to tell you about my knife sharpening skills is that I really suck. I've had a Spyderco sharpener--widely considered to be easy to use--and never managed to successfully sharpen an edge with it. I've had a Lansky sharpener--supposedly foolproof--and never managed to successfully sharpen an edge with it. I've had various grits of whetstones; again, no success. In the end, I gave my sharpening equipment to my ex (http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=939030&size=lg), who does the sharpenings for me. She and her husband seem to be able to sharpen just fine with the same equipment.
As for my sharpness measurement method, I did it as follows: I tied a loop of Johnson & Johnson waxed dental floss to the lid of a sport-style water bottle. I lifted the water bottle (very gently and slowly) by means of the knife to be tested, edge facing up, slipped under the loop of dental floss. I added water to the water bottle in 3-5 gram increments, until the weight of the water bottle was enough pressure for the knife to cut the dental floss. Then I weighed the water bottle full of water.
Alright, onto testing the sharpness of my knives. At the beginning of the testing period, the first item I tried was my Paul's Hatchet. The first thing I did with the Paul's Hatchet was purposely dull it by "cutting" into a 60 grit grinding belt (Blade held perpendicular to the belt, belt NOT attached to a grinder). By this method, I rapidly removed the fine edge on my hatchet entirely. In accordance with my sharpness measurements, it took over 2.5 pounds of pressure on the dental floss for the edge to cut through it.
So then I went to work sharpening it back up with the new sharpener. I used trailing strokes at the beginning, then switched to edge-first strokes, slightly diagonally, with the sharpener resting on my knee. Perhaps it was because the edge was so significantly worn down, perhaps it was because I'm a numbskull at sharpening, but it took a long time, and many hundreds of strokes. In the end, however, I successfully restored the edge. Specifically, I got the edge to where it took 580 grams of pressure to cut the floss. To put this into perspective:
cutting at 595 grams=the dullest at which I can scrape shave body hair
cutting at 460 grams=the dullest at which I can easily shave body hair
cutting at 390 grams=brand new factory edge on Cold Steel Gunsite
So, as you can see, I was able to bring the extremely dull edge back to just barely scrape-shaving sharp. For me, that's a major success. I've never before managed to bring ANY knife back to shaving sharp, much less one that had been purposely dulled with a grinding belt!
I do, indeed, consider this sharpener easy to use, even by a total dolt at sharpening. There's just something about the size and shape of this sharpener that makes proper strokes come naturally. And, rested upon my thigh, it was easy to be sensitive to the sound change and the changes in friction when sharpening at the correct angle. I don't know how to properly articulate this, other than to say that this sharpener is "unusually sensitive" to the proper angle and motion.
Without going into a lot more blather about each of my sixty or so sharpenings, let me summarize a few details: I was consistently able to bring back a shaving-sharp edge using this sharpener. I was able to get sharper edges with progressive use, the sharpest edge achieved was able to cut dental floss with 480 grams of pressure. It was easiest to use with convex edges, but not bad for use with flat edges.
As for the less desirable aspects of this sharperner:
It does not seem able to create "hair-poppin", "scary sharp" edges. (Or, at least, I cannot do so with this.)
It is fine enough grit that major sharpening, edge repair, or reprofiling would take a huge amount of time. I'd say that such usage is not realistically practical with this sharpener. I am guessing that this sharpener is designed primarily for putting touch-ups on knives that already have decent edges on them.
Oddly, it does not seem as effective on other knives as on Busse INFI knives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A the very end of the testing period (the day before yesterday), I got a hold of a leather strop (a belt) and some Veritas green chrome stropping compound from Lee Valley. My intitial experiments with using this to strop knives that have been sharpened with the prototype sharpeners shows that such a method can produce VERY sharp knives. Specifically, I was able to bring my Busse knives to where they would cut the floss with 400 grams of pressure--just about as sharp as a Cold Steel fresh from the factory. This makes me wonder whether the green stropping compound on a leather belt could be used effectively without the sharpener. (A question that I cannot answer.) If it could, then it seems like bringing a glob of stropping compound would be even lighter and smaller than bringing the sharpener.
I have also experimented with Cliff Stamp's "sharpening for dummies" method of knife sharpening with a slack grinder belt (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208093&highlight=sharpening+dummies). I have found this method to be very easy, and yield moderately good results--sharpening well enough to produce edges which could cut dental floss with about 650 grams of pressure, a little below shaving sharp. While this method doesn't produce as good of edges, it still produces decent edges, and it weighs considerably less than the new sharpeners. It doesn't take up much space either--I'd say a tie between the two methods, spacewise. However, the grinding belts do wear out a lot more quickly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall, I'm quite pleased with the new sharpener. I'll be carrying mine in my sheath pocket.
RokJok
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,201
Evolute,
Please accept my thanks for your thorough and comprehensive write-up of your testing and experience with the sharpener. Very very nicely done!!
I especially like that you described so well your method for testing how "sharp" an edge is and what the benchmarks are when using that method.
When both a reviewed item's good and bad points get attention, the review seems so much more balanced. Plus, your numbers indicate that you've used the sharpener enough to establish more than a chance good (or bad) sharpening or two.
Chuck,
When do these units hit the general market so I can send you a bit of the INFI fund that Jerry usually monopolizes? Have you establish a ballpark cost on these bad boys yet?
Hi Andrew,
I've got a few quick questions for you, or others who have test driven the prototypes.
You report that the sharpener doesn't seem to achieve hair-popping edges. Does it then leave some toothy aggression (i.e. not smoothly polished edges) on the blades you've done with the sharpener?? Have you run the sharpener on both INFI & SR101 and, if so, is there a field noticible difference in how they respond or in the results?
If the cutting media is embedded in ceramic, didn't the ceramic crack/break when the sharpener got bent or is it plasticene enough to withstand bending/flexing? Since the unit is 1/8" thick and has a groove down one face, in your opinion does the groove pose a substantial weak spot where the sharpener will be more inclined to break than if the groove were omitted?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Many thanks all,
-- Greg --
Please accept my thanks for your thorough and comprehensive write-up of your testing and experience with the sharpener. Very very nicely done!!
I especially like that you described so well your method for testing how "sharp" an edge is and what the benchmarks are when using that method.When both a reviewed item's good and bad points get attention, the review seems so much more balanced. Plus, your numbers indicate that you've used the sharpener enough to establish more than a chance good (or bad) sharpening or two.
Chuck,
When do these units hit the general market so I can send you a bit of the INFI fund that Jerry usually monopolizes? Have you establish a ballpark cost on these bad boys yet?
Hi Andrew,
I've got a few quick questions for you, or others who have test driven the prototypes.
You report that the sharpener doesn't seem to achieve hair-popping edges. Does it then leave some toothy aggression (i.e. not smoothly polished edges) on the blades you've done with the sharpener?? Have you run the sharpener on both INFI & SR101 and, if so, is there a field noticible difference in how they respond or in the results?
If the cutting media is embedded in ceramic, didn't the ceramic crack/break when the sharpener got bent or is it plasticene enough to withstand bending/flexing? Since the unit is 1/8" thick and has a groove down one face, in your opinion does the groove pose a substantial weak spot where the sharpener will be more inclined to break than if the groove were omitted?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Many thanks all,-- Greg --
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2000
- Messages
- 14,444
Well, I guess I have a long way togo as a field tester.
I didn't get quite as far into the scientific stuff as Mike did.
When I got mine, it too looked as if it had had a weekend in hell. So much for the USPS.
First, this piece appears to be ceramic coated alloy. One end of mine has ceramic coating, and the other has the alloy exposed.
Anyhow, I immediately checked it for carry ability and pouch fit. Fit great behind my sheath kit I have in my Steel Heart pouch. Good thing, as I couldn't fit a 3/8" ceramic rod there.
I too "bent" it, but not intentionally. Had it at the workbench, dropped it, and knocked something onto it. Freaked me out. So, with a bit of force, bent it back flat. No stess marks showed then, but it was a very minor bend.
I forced it against an edge, and in fact the coating on mine did develop several "cracks" in the concave side, and none on the convex. When I bent it back flat, no new cracks appeared, but the ones that did are pretty well defined. No adverse capability so far though.
Touched up edges on my SH, BA, and 2 Mean Streets. For me, that is a feat, as I can dull a 2x4. Very easy. Its size and shape allow you to hold it like a file, and easily control the contact angle.
If you prefer the traditional sharpening recommendations, I found that drawing my edge along the thin edge of this "stone" felt just like I was using a round ceramic rod.
I did check the edge against my "butterfly" serrations, and it worked great.
I can't add that much more than what's been said. I do agree that the corners could be rounded off, but looking at how it is cut from a length of stock, that would drive the price up.
If nobody else has posted a pic of theirs in the morning, I will get one on here. I think I heard that there were a couple variations (length), and I received the 4" version.
I didn't get quite as far into the scientific stuff as Mike did.
When I got mine, it too looked as if it had had a weekend in hell. So much for the USPS.
First, this piece appears to be ceramic coated alloy. One end of mine has ceramic coating, and the other has the alloy exposed.
Anyhow, I immediately checked it for carry ability and pouch fit. Fit great behind my sheath kit I have in my Steel Heart pouch. Good thing, as I couldn't fit a 3/8" ceramic rod there.
I too "bent" it, but not intentionally. Had it at the workbench, dropped it, and knocked something onto it. Freaked me out. So, with a bit of force, bent it back flat. No stess marks showed then, but it was a very minor bend.
I forced it against an edge, and in fact the coating on mine did develop several "cracks" in the concave side, and none on the convex. When I bent it back flat, no new cracks appeared, but the ones that did are pretty well defined. No adverse capability so far though.
Touched up edges on my SH, BA, and 2 Mean Streets. For me, that is a feat, as I can dull a 2x4. Very easy. Its size and shape allow you to hold it like a file, and easily control the contact angle.
If you prefer the traditional sharpening recommendations, I found that drawing my edge along the thin edge of this "stone" felt just like I was using a round ceramic rod.
I did check the edge against my "butterfly" serrations, and it worked great.
I can't add that much more than what's been said. I do agree that the corners could be rounded off, but looking at how it is cut from a length of stock, that would drive the price up.
If nobody else has posted a pic of theirs in the morning, I will get one on here. I think I heard that there were a couple variations (length), and I received the 4" version.
SALTY
Gold Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,803
POsting after Evolute is a tough act to follow, so therefore I will not even try to post an evealuation such as his.
I agree with most of what has been posted above. To echo some positive points, the size and shape is a winner, especially seeing as they must have been taylor made for the Busse sheath pockets.
The ceramic material does, in fact, stay on the underlying structural member and it's bonding method/roperties are impressive. The size, shape and execution of methods are great.
The negative: The grit is too fine. Yes it is great for quick touch ups but I wish it had more grit. I like microserrations and what they do for a knife's performance and this selected grit does not seem to provide them. It can be used to keep an edge keen but more in the sence of polishing the edge. I do not see this present grit as removing metal from the blade. I found myself using the edges of the tool instead of the flats in order to get a little more bite.
Overall, I like the idea but would change the grit and maybe through some diamond dust into the mix.
I agree with most of what has been posted above. To echo some positive points, the size and shape is a winner, especially seeing as they must have been taylor made for the Busse sheath pockets.
The ceramic material does, in fact, stay on the underlying structural member and it's bonding method/roperties are impressive. The size, shape and execution of methods are great.
The negative: The grit is too fine. Yes it is great for quick touch ups but I wish it had more grit. I like microserrations and what they do for a knife's performance and this selected grit does not seem to provide them. It can be used to keep an edge keen but more in the sence of polishing the edge. I do not see this present grit as removing metal from the blade. I found myself using the edges of the tool instead of the flats in order to get a little more bite.
Overall, I like the idea but would change the grit and maybe through some diamond dust into the mix.
I didn't put the one I got through any extreme tests of endurance. I did how ever take it to each of my knives though. It works well with INFI. It's portable and I kept it in my wallet. Water didn't mess up its cutting ability. It worked well on everything except my Strider AR. That might have been the grind, the steel, I don't know. It worked like a dream on everything else. Great little sharpener. And I'm a freak about sharpening.
Hey guys,
Here are my results, I am by no means a sharpening expert. In fact,
I would say novice. All of my sharpening is done on a Sharpmaker.
On to the sharpener. The one I received is 1"x 4 3/4". Fits perfect in my Battle Mistress' sheath pouch.
I used the sharpener on my BM and SJ. I couldn't get the hair popping sharpeness back, like they had when they came from the factory. But, like I said, I'm a novice sharpener. I felt more comfortabe using the edge of the sharpener on the BM, then the flat. Guess the Sharpmaker has me spoilied.
I sharpened some dull folders (no, not Busse's)on the flat side, it did take a while to bring them back. As some of the others have said, I wouldn't let the edge get real dull. Keep it touched up.
I sharpened all of my Bass plugs hooks in the v groove. I have to admit, this wasn't fun at all. It did sharpen them very well, though.
I'd like to see a bit more agressive grit used, it is kinda of a fine grit. In fact, I laughed when I 1st opened the envelope, it seemed real smooth. It does grab steel when you use it, though. Looks are deceiving.
The sharpener seems sturdy enough. Like the others, it survived the US Postal Service. I am suprised it stayed in the envelope. Didn't bend or have any nicks in the edges.
IMHO, I think as a field sharpening device, this one is more then adequate.
Here are my results, I am by no means a sharpening expert. In fact,
I would say novice. All of my sharpening is done on a Sharpmaker.
On to the sharpener. The one I received is 1"x 4 3/4". Fits perfect in my Battle Mistress' sheath pouch.
I used the sharpener on my BM and SJ. I couldn't get the hair popping sharpeness back, like they had when they came from the factory. But, like I said, I'm a novice sharpener. I felt more comfortabe using the edge of the sharpener on the BM, then the flat. Guess the Sharpmaker has me spoilied.
I sharpened some dull folders (no, not Busse's
)on the flat side, it did take a while to bring them back. As some of the others have said, I wouldn't let the edge get real dull. Keep it touched up.I sharpened all of my Bass plugs hooks in the v groove. I have to admit, this wasn't fun at all. It did sharpen them very well, though.
I'd like to see a bit more agressive grit used, it is kinda of a fine grit. In fact, I laughed when I 1st opened the envelope, it seemed real smooth. It does grab steel when you use it, though. Looks are deceiving.
The sharpener seems sturdy enough. Like the others, it survived the US Postal Service. I am suprised it stayed in the envelope. Didn't bend or have any nicks in the edges.
IMHO, I think as a field sharpening device, this one is more then adequate.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Mike, for cleaning fine ceramics, I have found what is best is something like comet and a very stiff brush or abrasive pad. I have been able to clean steel off of every ceramic I have used in this manner. Titanium however is near impossible to remove, it gums into the ceramics.
As an extreme case, you might try using HCl to dissolve the metal (all proper care taken when using strong acids of course). Many cleaners contain this acid in enough concentration, assuming you can soak it without the acid contacting the base material.
In regards to making the grit more coarse, if you have access to a diamond plate, try lapping it a little. If you don't, try using some SiC lapping compound on glass. These may be able to add some aggression to the ceramic.
How brittle is it, can you drop it from a decent height and not have it break. For example if you are using it and it slips out of your hand, how far can it fall and hit a rock and not be functionally damaged?
Interesting idea to use a coated plate instead of solid ceramic. Maybe it could be offered in a few grits.
-Cliff
As an extreme case, you might try using HCl to dissolve the metal (all proper care taken when using strong acids of course). Many cleaners contain this acid in enough concentration, assuming you can soak it without the acid contacting the base material.
In regards to making the grit more coarse, if you have access to a diamond plate, try lapping it a little. If you don't, try using some SiC lapping compound on glass. These may be able to add some aggression to the ceramic.
How brittle is it, can you drop it from a decent height and not have it break. For example if you are using it and it slips out of your hand, how far can it fall and hit a rock and not be functionally damaged?
Interesting idea to use a coated plate instead of solid ceramic. Maybe it could be offered in a few grits.
-Cliff
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
No sign of it, but the main has been hell for slow lately. I ordered a pair of sissors for a gift and it took 1.5 months for them to arrive. If it shows up, I'll drop you an email.
-Cliff
-Cliff
Great reviews guys!
btw, mine came with the nice USPS shredded wrapping job also!
I absolutely love this thing! It is the perfect size for carrying anywhere as it doesn't take up ANY space.
The tests I performed were on a Steel Heart e, Natural Outlaw, Mean Street, a couple kitchen knives, and an Al Mar SERE 2k (VG10).
My Busses are typically kept razor sharp, so I had to go out and slap them around a bit!
I worked them over for a while on some dry 5-8" locust trunks rolled around in the dirt every once in a while. This gave them an edge that was quite a way from hair popping
I first worked the MS and found it worked quite rapidly to bring back the edge. I was able to work the edge by holding the knife stationary and running the sharpener over it. I alternated sides since the edge is basically more of a full convex versus the assymetrical profile.
The sharpener was very easy to hold in this fashion and I was able to use the flats or the edges with total control.
The ceramic seemed a little aggresive to start with and throughout working on the SH it's "courseness" seemed to lessen considerably.
The Steel Heart took an edge that was a not quite as sharp as I would prefer, but would pop hair with more pressure. This is typically what I have found with other ceramic sticks after a bit of use, so I gave it the soap and water, scotch brite pad treatment to clean it up.
After a little more stropping it brought the edge back nicely
Rather than sharpening with the "edge trailing" method on the NO I decided to try "steeling" the edge instead. Being that the edge wasn't as poorly performing as I had made the others it came back easily.
Throughout the next few days I chopped into various types of woods (both dry and dirty to speed up the edge wear), and repeated the sharpening methods with similar results as the first evening.
After about a week of doing basic INFI trials I decided to try some kitchen (Chicago Cant Cut-lery
) knives and was easily able to bring the edges back up to par (steeling method).
This got me thinking, and for the next two weeks of random INFI abuse I would strop the SH and "steel" the NO on the sharpener regularly after each use. The SH seemd to get away from me faster than the NO and seemed to take more strokes (edge trailing) to get it back into line.
Anyway, I'm still playing with the whole stropping versus steeling thing and am not quite convinced one is better than the other yet.
BUT, it does work IMO.
I don't know how this will effect the ceramic coating over time but for the time being it looks like it's holding up well.
So onto the Al Mar VG10 blade.
This blade gets used in all the incorrect ways around work so it's pretty beat up and nicked I was able to use the ceramic sharpener as a grinding stone (resting on a table and working the blade in circles) and although it didn't put a pretty edge on the blade it did clean up the nicks well.
During all of these sharpenings I wasn't neccesarily putting on an edge that would shave without effort, rather they would push cut with minimal effort (rashy shave).
Overall, the ceramic seemed to hold up and maintain it's sharpening ability... only there something missing?!?!?!?
It sharpened well, it works well for steeling, and it held up to the Chicago Cutlery... it proved itself daily for a few weeks and I was ready to beg Chuck for some more! Then, just as I was ready to go home I saw an image of an overly hairy canadian guy and a kitchen sink torn to bits!!!
My first impulse was to throw it onto the gravel driveway and start playing a little rock soccer. I did this daily while I would walk across a gravel lot at work. Sometimes I would just lob it onto the ground and other times I would just whip it as far as it would go. It would bounce a bit and then the game was on! I would bounce it around and sometimes step on it and give it a little Michael Jackson dance spin under one foot
A little marring was evident but there was no chipped ceramic!
Soooo, I took it inside and froze it in a glass of water then dropped the ceramic sticked freeze pop into a pot of boiling water!
No problem!
I tried it over and over and nothing seemed to happen!?!?!
I also tried frozen drops onto cement and nothing happened.
I'm not too familiar with the expectations of ceramic in these kinds of rapid temperature changes so I'm not sure if this would have shown anything different with solid ceramic. (anyone else???)
I now keep the sharpener with my Snake Skinned SHe and she goes everywhere with me. I'm looking forward to when these are more readily available so I can outfit my other users with them.
Thanks for the opportunity to trial one Chuck!
Good luck in your quest to get these into the hands of more INFI addicts!
btw, mine came with the nice USPS shredded wrapping job also!
I absolutely love this thing! It is the perfect size for carrying anywhere as it doesn't take up ANY space.
The tests I performed were on a Steel Heart e, Natural Outlaw, Mean Street, a couple kitchen knives, and an Al Mar SERE 2k (VG10).
My Busses are typically kept razor sharp
, so I had to go out and slap them around a bit! I worked them over for a while on some dry 5-8" locust trunks rolled around in the dirt every once in a while. This gave them an edge that was quite a way from hair popping
I first worked the MS and found it worked quite rapidly to bring back the edge. I was able to work the edge by holding the knife stationary and running the sharpener over it. I alternated sides since the edge is basically more of a full convex versus the assymetrical profile.
The sharpener was very easy to hold in this fashion and I was able to use the flats or the edges with total control.
The ceramic seemed a little aggresive to start with and throughout working on the SH it's "courseness" seemed to lessen considerably.
The Steel Heart took an edge that was a not quite as sharp as I would prefer, but would pop hair with more pressure. This is typically what I have found with other ceramic sticks after a bit of use, so I gave it the soap and water, scotch brite pad treatment to clean it up.
After a little more stropping it brought the edge back nicely
Rather than sharpening with the "edge trailing" method on the NO I decided to try "steeling" the edge instead. Being that the edge wasn't as poorly performing as I had made the others it came back easily.
Throughout the next few days I chopped into various types of woods (both dry and dirty to speed up the edge wear), and repeated the sharpening methods with similar results as the first evening.
After about a week of doing basic INFI trials I decided to try some kitchen (Chicago Cant Cut-lery
) knives and was easily able to bring the edges back up to par (steeling method).This got me thinking, and for the next two weeks of random INFI abuse I would strop the SH and "steel" the NO on the sharpener regularly after each use. The SH seemd to get away from me faster than the NO and seemed to take more strokes (edge trailing) to get it back into line.
Anyway, I'm still playing with the whole stropping versus steeling thing and am not quite convinced one is better than the other yet.
BUT, it does work IMO.
I don't know how this will effect the ceramic coating over time but for the time being it looks like it's holding up well.
So onto the Al Mar VG10 blade.
This blade gets used in all the incorrect ways around work so it's pretty beat up and nicked
I was able to use the ceramic sharpener as a grinding stone (resting on a table and working the blade in circles) and although it didn't put a pretty edge on the blade it did clean up the nicks well.During all of these sharpenings I wasn't neccesarily putting on an edge that would shave without effort, rather they would push cut with minimal effort (rashy shave).
Overall, the ceramic seemed to hold up and maintain it's sharpening ability... only there something missing?!?!?!?
It sharpened well, it works well for steeling, and it held up to the Chicago Cutlery
... it proved itself daily for a few weeks and I was ready to beg Chuck for some more! Then, just as I was ready to go home I saw an image of an overly hairy canadian guy and a kitchen sink torn to bits!!!My first impulse was to throw it onto the gravel driveway and start playing a little rock soccer. I did this daily while I would walk across a gravel lot at work. Sometimes I would just lob it onto the ground and other times I would just whip it as far as it would go. It would bounce a bit and then the game was on! I would bounce it around and sometimes step on it and give it a little Michael Jackson dance spin under one foot
A little marring was evident but there was no chipped ceramic!
Soooo, I took it inside and froze it in a glass of water then dropped the ceramic sticked freeze pop into a pot of boiling water!
No problem!
I tried it over and over and nothing seemed to happen!?!?!
I also tried frozen drops onto cement and nothing happened.
I'm not too familiar with the expectations of ceramic in these kinds of rapid temperature changes so I'm not sure if this would have shown anything different with solid ceramic. (anyone else???)
I now keep the sharpener with my Snake Skinned SHe and she goes everywhere with me. I'm looking forward to when these are more readily available so I can outfit my other users with them.
Thanks for the opportunity to trial one Chuck!
Good luck in your quest to get these into the hands of more INFI addicts!
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Strabs :
Ceramics (its a wide class of materials) can be used as heating elements. They can stand changes of hundreds of degrees a second, and temperatures ~3000 F.
Nice job on the impacts, that was what I was curious about. Most hones would have been mangled before you even got started.
-Cliff
Ceramics (its a wide class of materials) can be used as heating elements. They can stand changes of hundreds of degrees a second, and temperatures ~3000 F.
Nice job on the impacts, that was what I was curious about. Most hones would have been mangled before you even got started.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 19,806
i agree with all above. mine is 3" i believe it to be 1" to short. 4" to 5" would be way nicer especially for the larger knives. i ended up using it in a circular fashion, holding the ceramic in my left hand and the knife in my right and using quarter sized circular strokes working both sides evenly.
where do i get a larger one?
thanks much for the chance to use it!
where do i get a larger one?
thanks much for the chance to use it!