Chainsaw Damascus Frustration

B

bennett

Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
212
I tried to make chainsaw damascus for the first time this weekend. I cut chain to length, welded the ends. Yesterday, I heated it up in my forge to what I thought was welding heat (piece of coathanger stuck to the steel), put plenty of borax on it, heated it again, and went to tapping. Didn't hit too hard... Stuff just would not weld up. I tried patiently for a couple of hours to get it to "stick", and just ended up failing miserably. My "billet"(welded bundle of chains) just fell apart! Anybody got any advice for a newbie? I've been forging for about a year, but haven't tried to make damascus yet. I'm wondering if I should try with some bar stock instead? I thought about ordering some, just for damascus, from Kelley Cupples the next time I place an order - anybody have any thoughts on what kind of steel would be best to use for a first attempt at "dangnasticus"(to quote another post here on the forums...)? Anybody have any other useful chainsaw or other damascus insights, they're most appreciated!
 
Not a forger yet but isn't one way to do it in a stainless pipe or tube?I'm sure someone will be along to help ya.
 
I've done alot of chainsaw....sounds like your heat was good....needs to be yellow...with kind of a singing spitting sound.

Here is a possible mistake you made.....add the borax when the steel begins to turn dull red....if you put it on a welding heat....you already got scale on the chain....

So go to dull red....add lots of borax...reheat....maybe some more borax....then up to weld heat.
 
Was this your first shot at forge welding? If so, you might want to try some simpler welds first just get a process down pat and get some confidence. Maybe some fagot welds with plain old low carbon steel. When I started welding I had fits trying to get my first two pieces to stick beyond being lightly glued. Once I did it was all gang busters. I about threw a part when I lifted my small anvil with the forge welded hook of my fire place poker!

My billets have been from 1095 and 1018, a combination that I read was a fairly easy to work with. After I do a couple more I'll add some 15N20 or something to get more contrast but the 1095/1018 looks pretty good and if it doesn't you know what you're doing wrong.
 
Chain is really hard to do without a press or power hammer. I weld all the chain up in a canister with powder now. But have done it without the canister. I would fold and weld the chain around 1" wide and 1/8" thick pieces of 1084. The easiest Damascus to start with is cable. Good luck. :thumbup:
Feel free to call me iif you have any questions. 508 951 2719
 
Bennett

I have heard others say to grind the teeth of chains saw. But my advice is not too. They will stick together when you get it right.

My way was to wash the chain with petrol to get any rubbish out of the links. It makes it easyier for the flux to do its job if all the crud is already out.

I bundle a couple of chains together and wrap up with twitch wire. The first couple of heats I flux and basically try to consolidate the chain into a more solid shape Tapping the sides and flats and fluxing each time. The when some what pushed together then I hamer hard to weld into a flat bar. I only fold as little as possible. The more you fold the stringier the pattern.

The mith I heard about the grinding is that there is too much chrome in the teath and that stops them sticking. It may be the case with some brands but I have not found any yeat that I could not weld. Not thatb there arn't just that I have not found them.

In any event damascus from bar stock is much easyer than chain. Kelley Couple has sent me come steel in the past. He will cut it to what ever size you like. A very helpfull man. Postage is the only thing stopping me buying more. I think you local rate is very cheap international is expensive as you would have to expect.

One last thing with the chain. If it is cold do not hit it again until hot .
A common mistake is to try to hit it harder to make it stick. It will not work it will tend to make the other cold welds fall appart. Only do a little section at a time until you have mastered it and you will find you can make very large billets. It is hard to learn but once you have it worked out it is one of the easy patterns to make if you only have a hammer. Bar stock takes a lot of drawing out and folding.
 
Reg ELLERY said:
Bennett

I have heard others say to grind the teeth of chains saw. But my advice is not too. They will stick together when you get it right. High chrome content.

Its the L shape cutting teeth that always seem to hold imperfections and messes up your billit with pock marks. The rest of the tooth attached to chain welds fine and will give you enough contrast.
Didnt make myself clear enough .Sorry :D :cool:
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Haven't been able to post in a while - I've been moving this week. Thanks to everyone for all the great advice! I'm going to do some research on forging in a canister, and will probably order some powdered 1084 from Kelley when I place my next order. In the meantime, I'll probably try something with barstock. Of course, I'm pretty sure I'll give the chainsaw another try too - with or without the powdered steel. Looking at the chainsaw damascus forged by some of you guys makes me want to light my forge and have another go at it!
 
bennett said:
Haven't been able to post in a while - I've been moving this week. Thanks to everyone for all the great advice! I'm going to do some research on forging in a canister, and will probably order some powdered 1084 from Kelley when I place my next order. In the meantime, I'll probably try something with barstock. Of course, I'm pretty sure I'll give the chainsaw another try too - with or without the powdered steel. Looking at the chainsaw damascus forged by some of you guys makes me want to light my forge and have another go at it!
Click to expand...
The dude from South America was using steel wool with the chain in a canister.
 
where do you guys get your chainsaw chains? What about motorcycle chains?
 
Daniel Koster said:
where do you guys get your chainsaw chains? What about motorcycle chains?
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Duh!!! From a chainsaw and from a motorcycle. :confused: :confused: HEHEHEHE!!! I have some what do you have to trade?????? The motorcycle chain if you get any just be careful that it doesn't have orings in it and I like the ones with diamonds on it or they have Made in USA on the links.
:D
 
After you have fluxed the billet, try putting a twist in it at welding heat. This will tend to hold together better. As stated before it is usually the last hammer hit (when the billet is too cold) that usually causes the wreck.
 
A wet weld with chain is an act of patience. Chainsaw chain and rollor chain are different materials. As a rule of thumb chainsaw and harvester chain are of the nickel bearing steels, L6 and 15N-20. Roller chains are ten series steel. Welding in a can with a powder backfill of contrast is the easiest way to weld both types. When using chiansaw chain backfill with 1O series powder. When using roller chain backfill with carbonized 4600e powder. With either of these mixes or cable massage the billets with hammer or press until firm and continue to massage for several heats trying to avoid drawing the billets. This will make the billets more homogenous...Take Care...Ed
 
what happens to the cannister? I'm envisioning picking up some square tube scrap (mild) to dump the stuff into...is that the right idea? Does the cannister need to be removed at some point (after it has welded)?


Thanks for the offer, I.G. I ain't sitting on a lot of stuff right now...barely have enough to get by.

Can I just walk into a motorcycle shop and ask for leftover chain? Or will I get laughed out of the place? (note: I do not have any tattoos...:p)

Where can you get leftover chainsaw chain?

Guess it's time to get in better with the local scrap yard...they did let me dig their dumpster last time I went...:rolleyes:
 
Daniel-

I've found that with most any place, if you walk in with this approach:

"Hey guys, how's it going?"

"I'm a custom knifemaker, and I've really been wanting to try _ _ _ _ _ _, and I thought there might be a chance I could come in and buy some scrap material from you and give it a go."

If you're nice and smile a lot, you usually end up with an arm load of whatever the material is (for free most times).

The only problem is when you try to be really picky... i.e. start asking for material with a high nickel content, or wanting to know a carbon range, etc.

I think most biker guys think it's so cool that you want to make a knife out of something like a primary chain, they won't notice you don't have any tats (I don't either :) ).

I can't believe that freak show we call IG didn't jump all over that comment about fag welds. Sure, it was a serious post, and I think we can appreciate that... but come on, it's IG, and Mike said, "fagot welds."

:eek: :p :D
-Nick-
http://www.wheelerknives.com
 
NickWheeler said:
Daniel-

I've found that with most any place, if you walk in with this approach:

"Hey guys, how's it going?"

"I'm a custom knifemaker, and I've really been wanting to try _ _ _ _ _ _, and I thought there might be a chance I could come in and buy some scrap material from you and give it a go."

If you're nice and smile a lot, you usually end up with an arm load of whatever the material is (for free most times).

The only problem is when you try to be really picky... i.e. start asking for material with a high nickel content, or wanting to know a carbon range, etc.

I think most biker guys think it's so cool that you want to make a knife out of something like a primary chain, they won't notice you don't have any tats (I don't either :) ).

I can't believe that freak show we call IG didn't jump all over that comment about fag welds. Sure, it was a serious post, and I think we can appreciate that... but come on, it's IG, and Mike said, "fagot welds."

:eek: :p :D
-Nick-
http://www.wheelerknives.com
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Hey!!! I been try to be nice on this side of the forum. I thought he said fagot welder, so I figured that I have been picking on you enough lately and wouldn't mention your the man. :confused: HEHEHEHE!!!
 
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