Chakma and Karda question?

etp777

etp777

Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Messages
2,259
OK, I was thinking I might fix up these blems I got for some friends, who are interested in HI, but can't swing cash for regular prices now(and can't sit on computer to pounce on Uncle Bill's deals like me. :) )

Anyways, one thing I wanted to do as part of the process is reharden the Chakmas, as at least the one I have here(haven't tested otehr yet), is softer than the blade it's supposed to burnish. My problem is that I'd like to know what kind of steel it is so I can dig through my charts to find heat treating information. Is this the same 5160 springs that the khuks are made of(if we don't know what it is, and worse comes to worse, I can always trace it onto some O1 here, so it's not some huge neessity if we don't know. :)
 
Sarge posted some thoughts on "souping up your chakma"
in this thread. The thread has some good info on removing the the handles and replacing the blade with a cold ground file blade.
There is some discussion on the metal used in the originals also.

For the chakma:
I would think that as long as it spark tests as a high carbon;
you could take it to non-magnetic, quench and then, if you think necessary, draw it down a few hardness points with a torch watching the color change.
The karda:
You could try the above with more attention to the tempering and the results would probably be fine: but your idea of using a steel you have worked with and know it's properties would, most likely, yield a superior blade.


Regards,
Greg
 
yeah, I remember his post about the file, and will do that or O1 if I have to. Just would like to keep these original as possible. Love the work the Kami's do, and lovehow they make these amazing knives outta leaf springs, I just wish it had a few more rockwell points on the Chakma(well, could also just make khuk softer, but none of us want that. :)
 
Just would like to keep these original as possible. Love the work the Kami's do, and lovehow they make these amazing knives outta leaf springs, I just wish it had a few more rockwell points on the Chakma
Click to expand...
I agree. Have you thought about casehardening the chakma?
 
I thought about it, except that I really have no idea how to do it. :D

REgular heat treat and quench to harden, I can do, and have done many times. That's part of why I had just planned on that route(plus I know it's pretty easy to remove them from the handles, at least according to other posts). This second blem will give me a chance to try many of the things on this forum, already digging out threads on tweaking a lslightly lose sheath, and will be picking up some black model paint next time I go to wally world so I can die a little epoxy to match the horn(wanna wait a week or two to make sure it adjusts to weather here in OK, rather than the NV weather, before I try to fix that).
 
Originally posted by Ripper
I agree. Have you thought about casehardening the chakma?
Click to expand...

Leave the "real" casehardening to the experts as it's done with a cyanide compound.
However there are some casehardening materials these days that are non-poisonous, but they don't work quite as well as the old time casehardening.
That is unless things has chnaged the last ten years I haven't been in the shop.
 
I thought about it, except that I really have no idea how to do it.
Click to expand...
Here's a pretty good article
about it.

In regards to what Yvsa said about the newer compounds:
The part about Kasenite in the above article is what you want. There are some other products out there also (such as Cherry-Red, that are pretty easy to use. I think Brownells, MSC and McMaster-Carr all sell some form of the compound.

You might want to also eyeball the "Super Quench" link on this page.
Regards,
Greg

Edit: Super Quench: They post rockwell in the 40-43 range for a low carbon steel, but here's a quote from Bob Warner's site:
"When it's cold, check the hardness with a
file. You'll be surprised how hard some things will get. NEVER (never) use this solution on spring steel, or anything else that
has high carbon content, or that you are uncertain as to the carbon content. You risk shattering the piece and hurting
yourself in the process."
 
Originally posted by etp777 ..... will be picking up some black model paint next time I go to wally world so I can die a little epoxy to match the horn(wanna wait a week or two
Click to expand...
Use the time to test the model paint works and to work out a color match.
If I were going to apply the epoxy untested,
I'd use a dry powder to be sure it mixed in properly.
 
yeah,planned on testing it first.

And the super quenech looks like one mentioned that is only good for low carbon(we were discussing this over in shop talk over past few days as one maker used a straight detergent quench), so it's not good for 5160. I personally use Goddard's Goop qunech, as vaguely described in $50 knife shop(vaguely as it varies by what you have around) with proportions kindly given by XRAYED, another maker over in SHop Talk.
 
The Chakma isn't very big. How about having one made out of hardened D2 tool steel or tugnsten? Doesn't have to be fancy, just hard and smooth.

One comment I'd like to pass down the pipe. I think a bit more finesse should be put into the Karda. My HI Khukuri was just about a piece of artwork, but the Karda still had grinder marks on the blade. Like the Karda was something of an afterthought that they just needed to toss in.

The steel and hardness though on the Karda and the Chakma seemed good and with an EZ-Lap diamond hone the Karda sharpened up really good.

The Karda that came with my Khukuri is actually a rather useful size and shape. A bit more care in finishing from the shop would be kind of nice.
 
Originally posted by mrostov ......The Chakma isn't very big. How about having one made out of hardened D2 tool steel or tugnsten? Doesn't have to be fancy, just hard and smooth.
Click to expand...
I've been thinking about tungsten too.

Would TIG electrodes (the thicker ones) be hard / durable enough?
I've seen pictures but never held one.
Is tungsten -always- hard, or does it need to be treated / heat hardened?

I've been meaning to dig out a set of old 80% or 90%
tungsten dart bodies to check the potential as chamas
(hardness & size/shape/threading.)

I've noticed there's at least one brand of fishing sinkers
in the stores that is a tungsten-steel,
but don't know about the hardness.

Sigh.........
Way too many projects half done.
And a half-dozen are khuk / sword related.
 
This is kind of non-traditional for those who like all of their stuff in the traditional Khukuri scabard, but what I use for a sharpening steel, ie, a Chakma, for my knives, is a rather cool tool made by Gerber and sold at Walmart for $7.

At the knife counter in the sporting goods section in Walmart is the Gerber sharpening tool. It looks like a steel marking pen. The diamond sharpening rod of the Gerber tool is nomally stowed inverted with the diamond covered side in the handle.

However, when you use it with the rod extended but in backwards and the diamond half of the rod in the handle, so far, it seems to make a decent steel edge burnisher, i.e., a Chakma.

The Gerber sharpening tool is a superb deal for what it costs. The diamond half of the rod has a flat side and a round side, and it also has a fishhook groove for sharpening fishhooks. Furthermore, it also seems to make a good 'Chakma'.
 
Originally posted by mrostov
the Gerber sharpening tool. ....... it also has a fishhook groove for sharpening fishhooks.
Click to expand...
Come to think of it,, I have one of those.
I'll give it a try.

I want to see a Birgorkha fishhook! :p
 
IIRC, the 5160 spring steel they use is 99.5% the same as 5160 here in the states. It's been said before that the same heat-treating applies. If you want a karda to experiment on before you do one of your own, I'll gladly send you one.

Dan
 
Thanks for the offer Dan. :) I have one though where Karda is actually cracked(that's why it's blem), so I think I"ll use that as my first experiement, as I'm planning on replacing whole thing anyways.

Course, if that experiment doesn't work, then I'll come annoy you for yours. :)
 
The easiest way would be to just buy a Fieldcraft from Marble's to replace each of your karda's or chakma's that don't live up to your standards.:D :)
You will then have nice, hardened 52100 steel, a knife of serviceable size and an extra sheath so that you can carry it free of the khuk if necessary.:D :D ;) :cool:
 
Right.

But....

If you own more than a few khukuris - like, ahem, a few of us do... :D

Then figuring out a way to harden them up to 61 or so sounds like a much better plan to me.

I'm with you on this ept777 - let's get this figured out and post the results. Should be simple enough...:rolleyes: (as if anything ever is)

Dan
 
are the new ones up to the standard of the old?

I have three old Marbles...two Woodcrafter and a 40's Scout knife..and as beat-up as they are, just love 'em.

Of course, the "new" one is from the early 50's.:)

The images I've seen look...dunno...commercial somehow....

Are they as well made? Decent steel?

Thanks.
 
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