Chakmak

O

Outdoors

Joined
May 24, 2001
Messages
609
Hi gang,
I'm a new poster, but I've been lurking for about a year now. Since Craig's off somewhere (wasn't he expecting a shipment sometime soon?), I though I'd post a new thread.

We all know that the Chakmak is used to burnish the edge of your khukuri, but it's supposed to have a secondary function as a flint striker. Anyone out there tried this and gotten it to work? Yeah, sure I've seen the Kami in Ghurka Steel light his cigarette with chakmak and flint, but I just can't get it to work.

I've tried this with the chakmak from my Cheetlang and my GH WWII as well as a chakmak from hhhhmmmmrrruuummmppphhh another manufacturer
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and nary a spark.

BTW, the flint shard I'm using works fine with a commercial steel.

Al right folks, let's get the conversation rolling - it's way too quiet out there!

Patrick
 
Now you've got me wondering about this, Patrick! Strangely, it's something I haven't tried yet, but maybe this weekend is the time to find out. I'm pretty sure our Mini Jungle chakmas are too soft, but I'll try them and those from a WW2, Cheetlang, and big AK.

If we can't get any chakma sparks, then maybe it's time Craig lit his own fire under Lalit to get 'em made harder to do the job. Guess I'll have to buy some flint (which could lead to at least one smoke pole to follow someday).

What d'ya think? Yes, and congrats on posting a nice first thread.

Dan
 
Hi Lt. Dan,
Let me kno if you have better luck - maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

As far as the flints, buying some could be dangerous! I've already got three blackpowder pistols on my list of things I just "have" to have!

Talk to ya next week,
Patrick
 
Tried the same with the SN1 Chakmak and no joy. I used the same flint from my firestarter kit that i use in Medieval Reenactment and it sparks like a charm the metal is either too soft or not heat treated and fast quenched. I do some flintlock rifle shooting and when we get a frizzen that wont spark the usual cure is to heat it cherry red with a butane torch and then simply fast quench it in water, I have a feeling that it would destroy the handle on a chakmak.
Nick
 
Greeting Nick,
glad to see I'm not the only anachronist on the forum! My wife and I both enjoy re-enactment, but with a 15 month old, we don't have time for much in the way of activities these days. I haven't checked my chainmail in 2 years, it's probally rusted into one big lump!

I have only one charcoal burner right now, and it's percussion. I guess I'll have to fix that little problem soon.

I've seen a few threads about rehandling khukuris, maybe the handles could be "induced" to come off with a little heat. Boiling is supposed to work, but probally would dsestroy either wood or horn. In the Ghurka Steel video, the kamis just heat the metal to melt the laha when assembling a khuk. I wonder if heating up the blade a bit might soften the laha enough to remobe the blade?

Patrick
 
Yikes! Pardon the spelling errors in my last post. I was on my way to a site visit this morning, so I was a bit rushed.

Patrick
 
If you pick up a copy of Gurkha Steel, you can see TB actually sharpening a khukuri with the impliment, and you can also see another bishwakarma lighting a cigarette with it! It's hard, but it does work.

------------------
Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Been there, done that. Maybe I need to watch GS again (of course I do!). Just to see how the bishwakarma is holding the Chakma, you understand!

Patrick
 
Alrighty Craig,
maybe I missed it, but where exactly does TB sharpen a khukuri with the Chakmak? You wouldn't be taunting us with snippets from the sequel, would ya? Naaahhh
biggrin.gif


Patrick
 
Back to the top. Craig, can you answer the previous questions? Also, any idea how I can remove the blade of a Chakma without destroying the handle?
 
You'll probably find it very strange, Patrick, that I'm coming in on this thread so long after the embers have cooled. But I sometimes take the time to do some searching in BF, and that's how I arrived at this campfire. Concerning the errant chakmak, I took one of mine to a friend the other day. He specialises in old-fashioned tinderboxes and stuff. So I let him try the chakmak out. To put it in a nutshell, he tried to coax sparks from it and was NOT impressed at all. I sum the whole matter up as follows: The kamis concentrate on the khukuri itself and probably reason that the accessory items will never be used by the Western clients. Consequently the accessory items are quickly (rush-rush) slapped together with a minimum of attention and quality control. So what matter that they cannot do the job they are supposed to do? The karda can still skin a grape. The rich Westerners just want the rig complete! So whose fault is this? Well, first of all we probably need to determine how important this matter is to the clients in general. Opinions may vary. Me, I'd like the accessory items to be as perfectly functional as the khukuri itself. I don't care a hoot that I will never use the chakmak for striking sparks. It's the principle of the thing. When I show my rig to guests, I don't want to make apologies about the items that go with the basic knife. Most of my friends are very knowledgeable and scrutinise the rigs minutely, and ask piercing questions. After I've blushed and blustered, you can see they think "tourist", because that's exactly what gives tourist merchandise the reputation it already has: just looks, not function. So I think we the customers must take full blame because we are so lenient. We must probably request Craig (gently, 'cause he's a good guy) to bring this matter up with the powers that be in Nepal, and to demand attention to the accessory items, with the reasoning that the rich Westerners won't continue buying their products because they are finding out the whole rig is not functional. And we've got to be very appreciative of Craig when he does move in this direction. Personally, I've got this belief that originally the K & C's must also have been MUCH LONGER, too.

Worst case scenario for the next five years: due to leniency and lack of discrimination on the part of the majority of buyers, the shops in Nepal where quality khuks are now made, will gradually deteriorate into tourist shops. Are we the last afficionados to actually manage to procure "real" new khukuris from Nepal? (Boy, I'm going to get fried for this!)

--------Old Nepalese saying: "..... and the sparrow said to the parrot: Yes, you can talk, but are you LISTENING to yourself?"
 
Originally posted by Johan van Zyl

Are we the last afficionados to actually manage to procure "real" new khukuris from Nepal? (Boy, I'm going to get fried for this!)
Click to expand...
Heh, heh, heh. Well Johan,your in for it now!
I've let this thread lapse, partially because I haven't had the time to try and "reharden" a chakma. This is the field season for ecologists, so I haven't had much free time. The other reason, well I've been refinishing a handle on another khuk, carving an eskimo style kayak paddle, and testing my Cheetlang. Hopefully I'll get back to the Chakma project over the next few weeks.

I have a few ideas on how to remove the handle now, so that should help. By the way, I've tried the Chakma from nearly all my Khukuris, some GH, some :eek: other manufacturers, and a villager, and nary a spark from any of them. Rumour has it that since the bic lighter hit Nepal, the hardness of the Chakma has gone downhill.

I'd be all for lighting a fire under TB and Lalit (if we can ever get the tinder going :D ) and see if we can't get some better accessories.

Patrick
 
I want to say something and I'm going to say it. :eek: If I were a resourceful villager a few centuries ago in Nepal, and I needed a steel striker to make sparks, why in the name of all ye gods and little kittens would I fashion a straight striker in the shape of a little blunt knife? Would I not (if I were practical) make it in the shape of a "U" or even an oval "O", about four inches high, two inches wide and avout 1/8 inch thick? I would be able to grasp the steel "U" by one of it's uprights, or the "O" shaped striker by inserting my fingers in the central hole. And the karda: Would I not require a slender, sharp knife with a blade of about at least four inches long with a three inch handle? :confused: Here am I, with intelligent(?) hindsight, spouting opinions (with respect through) about a culture that is not mine and a tradition that is centuries old. How clever! :D
 
Good point, Johan. Certainly making a "U" or "O" shaped striker is well within the skills of any kami. Maybe the Chakma wasn't really intended for this role. If it's primary role is as a steel for straighten out the khukuri blade, using it as a fire steel may well have been a sort of trick, akin to striking a match on your bootheel, or balancing an egg on its end. I think I recall many of the old khukuris in John Powell's collection do not have accessories of any kind.

I tend to follow the functional principal. It seems that all the various cultures have would up with axes that are recognizable similar. An ax looks the way it does because that's the best shape for splitting and cutting wood, and I believe that most resourceful 'smiths would wind up with something similar, given time. I see no reason to believe that a resourceful villager in Nepal wouldn't come up with a similar firesteel to the ones we are discussing. Hmmm. What we need here is a good anthropologist!

As for the Karda, there is such a knife - it's the accessory karda for the Cheetlang! Though, I admit, even this one is a bit too thick for my tastes. My recent favorite small knives are the trade knives being sold to blackpowder shooters. Here's a photo of one I bought recently.

http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=3&do=detail&Cat2Option=no

It is very thin and quite sharp! This and the swedish Mora's are for me, near the untimate in this, sharp utility grade knives. I'm still thinking of a way to piggyback them on a khukuri sheath.

Patrick
 
Good reasoning, Patrick! Well, I've just received a 16" blem Panawal without scabbard, so what I'm going to do is MAKE a scabbard, and as I've got to make a K & C as well, I'm thinking along the lines of making the karda just as I would like it to be: long enough that I can use it effectively for a number of uses, and with a handle that is styled approximately the same as the big knife's handle. I'm still thinking what to do about a chakmak. Maybe I'll make an AWL as a second utility item. But the job must look good, in proper Nepalese tradition.
 
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