- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 5,461
Well, judging by the responses I have seen so far there is no need to wait until tomorrow to render my final decision regarding Les Robertson.
I have not contacted Les directly and there is no need to.
I gave a simple query to the advisory board, we set up several months ago. The question was simply "Should Les Robertson remain as moderator".
The position of Moderator is quite different here on the forums than in most other arenas. The moderator on most of our forums is regarded as an "In House" expert. Many of the questions posted to each forum are not necessarily addressed to any one moderator but if the question starts slipping down the forum without answer the moderator is expected to help pick up the slack and answer it. In the case of Les Robertson he answered many questions long before most moderators would. This is indeed indicative of his superior knowledge when it comes to custom knives.
However, (And this is a big However) what has happened here on too many occasions is that Les has taken, and more appropriately put, seized, various opportunities to enter into arguments directly with forum members and knife makers.
Regardless of whether his argument was based in fact or not, it is not appropriate for a moderator to enter into an argument with a member when it is clear he is arguing only for the sake of arguing. I enjoy a good argument but not when the material is shoved down my throat, in a condescending manner, with the classic "I am Right and You are Wrong attitude" which has been displayed here of late by Les Robertson, it just gets to be too much.
I have read many of the threads recently on this forum and if I was a member involved in an argument with Les the above is what I would feel.
There is a right way and a wrong way to argue a point and Les continuously chooses the wrong way. He may feel that he is attacked first on some occasions. I would venture to guess, and subsequently argue, that most of the attacks he feels are directed at him because of his previous statements and behavior regarding certain subject matter which he has a tendency to express himself in a not so kind and/or humorous manner.
Les retains a virtual plethora of information which is a value to our on-line community. His expertise in his field would be virtually impossible to replace. I however will not consider him a necessary evil, which is what was stated by an advisory board member. That is not my style. He is welcome to stay and add input to the forum. It is my decision, and that of the advisory board that he will however no longer remain, as Moderator, effective immediately.
This will also act as an official warning that regardless of who you are, what your background or expertise, I will not allow personal attacks from anyone on this forum, PERIOD!
I would like to apologize to all forum members on behalf of myself and all of the moderators here. This should not have been allowed to ever get to this point.
I would also like to apologize to Les Robertson. I should have understood at the time that I placed you on as moderator and saw the first signs of this that you may not be the man for the job. You are a tremendous resource and a valuable asset to our community. I do not want to loose you as a resource and nor do any of the members here. I just believe that you are not capable of moderating a group of people in a manner, which is conducive to objective overseeing. You can not remain objective as evidenced by your posts, your argumentative nature and your continued predilection for irrelevancy.
You are too much like myself in that you are quick to stand your ground. I have, over the last 2 years, learned that the Internet is a two edged sword. I actually had to dig out some old books I read from long ago and remember how to manage a large group of people. We have over 3,500 members here from damn near everywhere in the world. Each member with there own unique background, religion and political affiliation. To be able to place such a huge and diverse community together and have the few problems we do is truly a unique accomplishment. You must learn that others do not think like yourself and therefor they will not respond to your type of behavior in a manner, which you may like.
According to a member on the advisory boards, you are a Type A. Type A's are wonderful entrepreneurs and businessmen. They do not however make effective managers. That is not to say that you can not be trained to be an effective manager. I too have had to learn. Anyone, who remembers my posts over the last couple years, starting at Benchmade, can attest to that.
Les my suggestion to you is to go out and buy a few books and read them. In the past you have not responded to constructive criticism. Well now may be that time. You have the potential to do something great in your field and this is in no way meant to proclaim that you have not already contributed. What I am getting at here is that with some minor tweaking you can do great things with a great many more people.
You are much like me in that you are money motivated. Notice I did not say you are money hungry or whatever. You are willing to do the work necessary to attain the level of income you want. However should you ever wish to rise to the next level, you will find it much more difficult if you have burnt previous bridges getting there. Sometimes you need to go a little backwards to go forward. Many makers may not make what you think is a high quality knife today but who knows that very make could be the next Allen Elishewitz or whoever you currently like.
Sometimes it would be in your best interest to keep your opinions to yourself. This very post is my opinion on you. Maybe you will take this post apart and blast me with it. Maybe then I will think I should of kept this all to myself and just removed you as moderator without any explanation to you or the members here.
I would be willing to bet that based on your past you will take this in the wrong light and you will make some sort of post stating that you will never post here again. If you do, and you think this is some sort of agenda that we have to get rid of you, like you have stated before, then I guess we win. However the truth is I would like you to remain as a valued member and to offer your knowledge and expertise. Should you choose to move on I will obviously look at it that your ego has gotten in the way of logic.
Les, I lost over $1,000,000 (yes that is one million dollars) in the last two years in sales do to a decision made by Benchmade. I still post over on their site. I have asked them to let us host their forum here. I brought Allen Elishewitz to Benchmade. I host the AKTI forum here now and I still shake Les De Asis's hand each and every time I see him.
Although at the time I took the decision very personal I realize it was a business decision. Les and I traded some very heated emails over it but we understand each other. I hope you understand me and take this in the proper light.
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
I have not contacted Les directly and there is no need to.
I gave a simple query to the advisory board, we set up several months ago. The question was simply "Should Les Robertson remain as moderator".
The position of Moderator is quite different here on the forums than in most other arenas. The moderator on most of our forums is regarded as an "In House" expert. Many of the questions posted to each forum are not necessarily addressed to any one moderator but if the question starts slipping down the forum without answer the moderator is expected to help pick up the slack and answer it. In the case of Les Robertson he answered many questions long before most moderators would. This is indeed indicative of his superior knowledge when it comes to custom knives.
However, (And this is a big However) what has happened here on too many occasions is that Les has taken, and more appropriately put, seized, various opportunities to enter into arguments directly with forum members and knife makers.
Regardless of whether his argument was based in fact or not, it is not appropriate for a moderator to enter into an argument with a member when it is clear he is arguing only for the sake of arguing. I enjoy a good argument but not when the material is shoved down my throat, in a condescending manner, with the classic "I am Right and You are Wrong attitude" which has been displayed here of late by Les Robertson, it just gets to be too much.
I have read many of the threads recently on this forum and if I was a member involved in an argument with Les the above is what I would feel.
There is a right way and a wrong way to argue a point and Les continuously chooses the wrong way. He may feel that he is attacked first on some occasions. I would venture to guess, and subsequently argue, that most of the attacks he feels are directed at him because of his previous statements and behavior regarding certain subject matter which he has a tendency to express himself in a not so kind and/or humorous manner.
Les retains a virtual plethora of information which is a value to our on-line community. His expertise in his field would be virtually impossible to replace. I however will not consider him a necessary evil, which is what was stated by an advisory board member. That is not my style. He is welcome to stay and add input to the forum. It is my decision, and that of the advisory board that he will however no longer remain, as Moderator, effective immediately.
This will also act as an official warning that regardless of who you are, what your background or expertise, I will not allow personal attacks from anyone on this forum, PERIOD!
I would like to apologize to all forum members on behalf of myself and all of the moderators here. This should not have been allowed to ever get to this point.
I would also like to apologize to Les Robertson. I should have understood at the time that I placed you on as moderator and saw the first signs of this that you may not be the man for the job. You are a tremendous resource and a valuable asset to our community. I do not want to loose you as a resource and nor do any of the members here. I just believe that you are not capable of moderating a group of people in a manner, which is conducive to objective overseeing. You can not remain objective as evidenced by your posts, your argumentative nature and your continued predilection for irrelevancy.
You are too much like myself in that you are quick to stand your ground. I have, over the last 2 years, learned that the Internet is a two edged sword. I actually had to dig out some old books I read from long ago and remember how to manage a large group of people. We have over 3,500 members here from damn near everywhere in the world. Each member with there own unique background, religion and political affiliation. To be able to place such a huge and diverse community together and have the few problems we do is truly a unique accomplishment. You must learn that others do not think like yourself and therefor they will not respond to your type of behavior in a manner, which you may like.
According to a member on the advisory boards, you are a Type A. Type A's are wonderful entrepreneurs and businessmen. They do not however make effective managers. That is not to say that you can not be trained to be an effective manager. I too have had to learn. Anyone, who remembers my posts over the last couple years, starting at Benchmade, can attest to that.
Les my suggestion to you is to go out and buy a few books and read them. In the past you have not responded to constructive criticism. Well now may be that time. You have the potential to do something great in your field and this is in no way meant to proclaim that you have not already contributed. What I am getting at here is that with some minor tweaking you can do great things with a great many more people.
You are much like me in that you are money motivated. Notice I did not say you are money hungry or whatever. You are willing to do the work necessary to attain the level of income you want. However should you ever wish to rise to the next level, you will find it much more difficult if you have burnt previous bridges getting there. Sometimes you need to go a little backwards to go forward. Many makers may not make what you think is a high quality knife today but who knows that very make could be the next Allen Elishewitz or whoever you currently like.
Sometimes it would be in your best interest to keep your opinions to yourself. This very post is my opinion on you. Maybe you will take this post apart and blast me with it. Maybe then I will think I should of kept this all to myself and just removed you as moderator without any explanation to you or the members here.
I would be willing to bet that based on your past you will take this in the wrong light and you will make some sort of post stating that you will never post here again. If you do, and you think this is some sort of agenda that we have to get rid of you, like you have stated before, then I guess we win. However the truth is I would like you to remain as a valued member and to offer your knowledge and expertise. Should you choose to move on I will obviously look at it that your ego has gotten in the way of logic.
Les, I lost over $1,000,000 (yes that is one million dollars) in the last two years in sales do to a decision made by Benchmade. I still post over on their site. I have asked them to let us host their forum here. I brought Allen Elishewitz to Benchmade. I host the AKTI forum here now and I still shake Les De Asis's hand each and every time I see him.
Although at the time I took the decision very personal I realize it was a business decision. Les and I traded some very heated emails over it but we understand each other. I hope you understand me and take this in the proper light.
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
