Changing from a Chisel Grind

N

nolan raborn

Joined
Aug 18, 2005
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303
I have an Emerson Commander and although I love the shape and fit of the knife and the wave feature I have about had it with the chisel grind. I cannot get the thing as sharp as I keep all my other knives. If my other knives will not shave hair they are due for a trip to the Sharpmaker. I have made excuses for the thing and thought that my sharpening would improve with time but I have carried the thing nearly a year now and the sharpening seems to get worse.

What I want to know is, if I were to start sharpening the other side on my sharpmaker could I eventually get a grind on that side to approximate the one on the other side so I could then sharpen them in the usual way with a sharpmaker and get it to shave that way? What I don't know is what is the angle on the chisel grind now and is it close to the edge that the Sharpmaker produces?

Will someone who knows sharpening please give me some advice? I hate to just throw the thing in my drawer and go back to my BM Skirmish full time.

Nolan
 
i have seen some commaders that were "V" ground and they varied from being crummy to being "ok". if ya have a good stone like a coarse diamond DMT stone, and ya take your time and are carefull, it can turn out ok, the one i saw (and used to have) was professionally reground by someone and they did a real nice job, looked factory, cut well too.

if i were you i would either learn to sharpen the thing or sell it and get a "V" grind knife.
 
Emerson edges are... well, if you like your knives like razors, there are some tricks I've learned over the years to make them cut better.

Due to their thick final edge thickness and steep geometries, EKI productions will never cut as well as a lot of other full-flat ground, thin-edge knives, but they also don't ding as much.

You don't need to grind in a full V-edge, and in fact, I don't recommend it, since the edge thickness and original grind make it quite difficult. The cutting performance might be negatively impacted as well. I've seen a few with that done, and I'm not sure it was always for the better, since there's no edge ground into the reverse side to begin with! As I understand it, you need to grind in the whole bevel for it to work correctly.

Here's what I do:

1- Reprofile the edge, bringing it down to < 45 degrees on the edge side. This can make your blade pretty ugly, since you get about 1/8" of edge.

2- Sharpen the edge side normally, until you get a sizeable burr on the reverse (non-edged) side.

3- Deburr the reverse side by laying the reverse flat down on a stone, lifting the angle a fraction, and "strop" on the stone until the burr is gone. This will make the edge kinda ugly, since you'll either take off some of the coating or scuff up that side.

4- Repeat 2 and 3 until you've gotten to 400 grit stones.

5- Strop both sides liberally, first with paste, then on cardboard.

The reprofiling helps a lot, since they seem to come from the factory with an edge around 60-70 degrees. They're sharp enough to cut, no doubt about it, but they don't have the slicing nature of a thinner edge.

A note... reprofiling these edges are not really a task for a Spyderco Sharpmaker, unless you like sitting there for months. I used to use a DMT diamond hone and it still took 6+ hours. Currently I use an EdgePro, and even with the coarsest stone, it takes a good 20 minutes to grind down that edge.

-j
 
nolan,

sadly, i doubt it will ever approach the cutting power of other thin-edged high-ground knives.

when emersons are ground down to a zero grind (i.e. no edge thickness), they're frighteningly sharp, but not surprisingly, equally fragile.

good luck with it.

-j
 
Send the thing back to emerson for sharpening. I know no one wants to do that but I broke the point of a benchmade knife and I'm really glad I did.
The only reason I ever send any knife back to manufacture is if it was damaged really bad.

I remember someone on this forum directing somebody to the sharpening page on the emerson site. You might want to take a look at that.

It really does suck to have a dull knife. Good luck
 
Nolan,

I don't mean the stock thickness, but rather the final edge thickness and the edge angle. Both seem to contribute to slicing sharpness more than the stock thickness (I have used 0.25" full-chisel ground sashimi knives that are insanely sharp, and my 0.375" Scrapyard 6 slices cardboard better than any EKI I've had.)

-j
 
I have an older Emerson Blackbird that I got tired of as well. I couldnt get used to the chisel edge. I have been looking (on the net) at a Commander or CQC-8. I am a bit confused. Emerson's site lists these as "conventinal V-grind) blades. I also called them and asked. I was told that the Commanders have always had V Grinds.
 
This is a common point of confusion and revolves around the GRIND vs. the EDGE.

What EKI calls a "Conventional V-grind" refers to the GRIND. This is in contrast to their chisel-ground knives (archetypically, the CQC-7).

All EKIs are Chisel-*EDGED*, and always have been.

Converting a chisel-edged knife to being v-edged is no easy task, but certainly easier than trying to convert chisel-ground to v-ground. ;)

-j
 
the '12 is CLOSE to being a conventional "V" grind, but not quite. really, really close though.

the commander and the '8 are NOT a conventional "V" grind like say a spyderco delica irregardless what EKI calls them i can promise ya.

the suggestion by biogon to reduce the angle on the edge is also good advice.

with practice ya can learn to get a std CG a lot shraper than most would believe.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Someone could probably do a brisk busisness regrinding these knives. The Blackbird is a great knife. I recently checked out a Bowie (CQC-?). I would defenitely click "buy" and get more Emersons if I could only maintain that factory edge. Sending a knife across country to have it sharpened is not as easy as spending 30 seconds with my croc sticks. The Emersons are built like tanks. The wave is a greart feature. I wish more companies would license it.
 
Well, last night I got out my EdgePro Apex. It looks like I am finally going to have to learn to use that thing. It took me a long time to figure out where to place the bar but when I did I seemed to do some good. When I got through it was shaving pretty good, but it is not consistant. It shaves in places and other places hardly will knock off a hair. This weekend I want to get it back out and try it again and end up with some of the tape. I think I may be on to something here. I have had that thing six months or more and hardly ever fooled with it. The Spyderco is just too easy to use if the knife has a standard edge and is not terribly dull to start with. I guess it is time to learn something new. I thought they said you can't teach an old dawg new tricks!

Nolan
 
Here's a poor graphic illustrating Emerson grinds. Emerson's are an acquired taste. The closest one to a true V grind is the CQC-13 which is easily reprofiled to a true V grind edge. The Commander is a real challenge to reprofile and have it turn out looking good.
 

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Well, with a little luck I may have it whipped now. I got it pretty sharp last night and with practice, I just have to get better. I am not real hard to please. Just want it to look decent and shave when I get through sharpening it. Doesn't have to split hairs or anything like that.

Happy New Years everyone!

Nolan
 
Sounds good!

Glad you're improving on that Emerson edge.

I know it took me a LONG time and many knives to get it to where I like it.
 
roshi said:
Here's a poor graphic illustrating Emerson grinds. Emerson's are an acquired taste. The closest one to a true V grind is the CQC-13 which is easily reprofiled to a true V grind edge. The Commander is a real challenge to reprofile and have it turn out looking good.
Click to expand...


ya think the '13 is closer to a "V" than the '12?

i have only handled a '13 for a moment or so and didnt really notice the grind.

agree about how hard it is to regrind a commander/have it turn out looking /cutting good, i have seen some that looked REALLY bad, some were ok though, i prefer the CG commander and have had both. i suppose i am in the minority which hasnt ever had any probs sharpening a CG.
 
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