Cheaper Alternatives for Sharpmaker Diamond Rods?

Steel130

Steel130

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Sep 17, 2010
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Hey all. I put this post in the Tinkering category because it pertains to sharpening. I have been doing a little research and it seems that some people dont like the diamond stones for the sharpmaker because the diamond pieces can be dislodged. In some old posting I found someone pointed to these 1/2 inch Ruby stones on this site here. http://www.congresstools.com/congresstools/catalog?action=getcat&parent=24
I know many of you will suggest a benchstone. At this point I am not confident enough in my freehand sharpening to use a benchstone on my SYKCO knives ect. So alternatives pertaining to the Sharpmaker would be good.
thanks
Steeley
 
Any diamond hone can be damaged (diamond particles scrubbed off) if too much pressure is used. The Sharpmaker's diamond rods are known to be a little too fine (in grit) for heavy reprofiling jobs. That being the case, I suspect many who've tried to use them for such heavy work have probably scrubbed too aggressively on them (hence the quick loss of diamond). Same thing can happen to any other diamond hone. Diamonds will very aggressively remove metal, but it's important to match the grit size to the job at hand.

If you need more aggressive cutting, a lot of people have used wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around their existing rods. Use something like 220-400 grit for heavy re-bevelling, then finish the job with the Sharpmaker's own rods. OR, you can continue with the sandpaper, in grits from 600 and up.

By the way, all diamond hones will lose some diamond over time. It's normal, and can even improve their performance as this 'break in' takes place. The key is, always keep pressure light, and let the appropriate grit do the grunt work.
 
I talked to a journeyman bladesmith who used ruby stones to polish blades. He said that ruby stones yield a very smooth surface even in the coarser grits. That probably means that they don't cut very fast. They are also quite expensive. I would try Aluminum oxide or Silicon carbide.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
If you need more aggressive cutting, a lot of people have used wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around their existing rods. Use something like 220-400 grit for heavy re-bevelling, then finish the job with the Sharpmaker's own rods. OR, you can continue with the sandpaper, in grits from 600 and up.
Click to expand...

I've done this plenty of times in the past and sandpaper wrapped rods work well for very little money.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
If you need more aggressive cutting, a lot of people have used wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around their existing rods. Use something like 220-400 grit for heavy re-bevelling, then finish the job with the Sharpmaker's own rods. OR, you can continue with the sandpaper, in grits from 600 and up.
Click to expand...

I often use this method. It's cheap, easy, and effective. The key is to use Bulldog paper clams to hold the sandpaper tightly.


Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
Just a quick note, guys....

"Aluminum Oxide" is the chemical name for Ruby.


Stitchawl
Click to expand...

Now that adds some perspective. A little Google research, and I see:

Ruby = Corundum = 'natural' aluminum oxide (Al2O3)

Sapphire also falls into the same category, chemically.

The Sharpmaker's rods are made of 'alumina' ceramic, a.k.a., synthetic aluminum oxide. More or less the same stuff, at around 9 on the Moh's scale (out of 10, with diamond taking that highest position).

Once again, I've learned something new. :)

Edit:
With the 'Ruby' rods, at least, they're available in coarser grit sizes (60 thru 320), based on what I see in the link posted earlier.
 
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I ordered two rods from Congresstools to see how they differ in cutting ability from the dark Sharpmaker rods.
 
Here's a good thread from the Spyderco forum. I'm planning on buying 2 pairs of moldmaster in 120 grit and 240 grit for reprofiling, since the diamond rods are around 400. The flat stones and binder clips may be a better alternative, as it sounds like the Congress triangular stones are very hit or miss when fitting in the Sharpmaker.

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46317
 
Yes, ruby is red aluminum oxide. Most abrasives are aluminum oxide. The difference in cutting speed/quality has to do more with the binder than anything else.

In this case the term Ruby refers to a brand name rather than a particular mineral. The Ruby brand is made by Boride Engineered Abrasives. It is re-cut and sold, in this case, by Congress Tools. These Ruby stones are roughing stones. They are designed to be able to be used dry, shedding abrasive before they load.

A fellow forum member has sent me some of these stones. I'm currently testing them, so I can't give a thorough review yet.
 
Wouldn't the moldmaster, silicon carbide, be a harder and sharper stone than the ruby, alumina oxide? Let us know your results!
 
Handwrecker said:
Wouldn't the moldmaster, silicon carbide, be a harder and sharper stone than the ruby, alumina oxide? Let us know your results!
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It depends. All things being equal, silicon carbide cuts much quicker than aluminum oxide. However, speed of cut comes down to the binder the manufacturer uses. I've never tried a Moldmaster stone, so I can't say. An AO stone with a soft binder will often cut quicker than a SiC stone with a super hard binder. I do know from experience that the coarse Boride CS-HD stones, in particular the 120 grit made for the Edge Pro, are slower than many aluminum oxide stones. The binder is just too hard and there is too much of it. The 220 AO for the EP cuts quicker.

With the Sharpmaker, I'm guessing you would want to keep the tiny triangles flat and still fit in the stand. Thus a quickly wearing SiC or AO stone doesn't sound like a great option. I'd go with the 200 grit wet/dry. I know it works quickly, it's cheap, and you throw it away when you're done. It's the only way to stay flat with small sharpmaker rods. I have 6" rolls of the PSA backed stuff from Klingspor and it works really well.

On another note, I've found Congress Tools to be really sloppy with how they cut stones. Most of the stones I've seen from them have deep saw marks still in them that take a while to flatten out. I've even gotten a couple that are misshapen and unusable. I cut stones myself from time to time, so I know how these things can happen. But I find it frustrating that they don't even check their product on a reference plate before sending it out. Since cutting a triangle shape is more difficult, they might be even more prone to error.
 
Good to know about the binders, I may have to try a few of these Congress blends out.

changeofseasons said:
On another note, I've found Congress Tools to be really sloppy with how they cut stones. Most of the stones I've seen from them have deep saw marks still in them that take a while to flatten out. I've even gotten a couple that are misshapen and unusable. I cut stones myself from time to time, so I know how these things can happen. But I find it frustrating that they don't even check their product on a reference plate before sending it out. Since cutting a triangle shape is more difficult, they might be even more prone to error.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've heard the same. I plan on rigging mine up like this because I've heard that trying to find a good fitting triangle pair is tough. I'm trying 120 and 240 grit SiC, and it says moldmaster is made for hardened steels. I'll have to see how it works out.

100_0793.jpg


As far as cost, I got 4 stones for $12. If it works well, that blows wet/dry on Sharpmaker rods out of the water. I never had good of results from wet/dry, and even prefer using the diamond rods despite it taking so long.
 
A quick update:

I received the 120 and 240 grit Moldmaster stones.

So far I've only used them to reprofile my Gayle Bradley. I had used the Spyderco diamond rods to reprofile a custom in CPM 154, a CRKT Folts Minimalist in cheap Chinese steel, Kershaw's 14C28N, and a slippie in 440C before buying these. Even with M4 being chock full of carbides and way harder than the others, these Moldmaster rods are doing a hell of a job. Instead of taking me 2 hours, it's taken me about 25-30 minutes to get the GB bevel down to 30* inclusive.

I can't wait to get my 30* bevel on this blade and then polish everything up on the UF rods. I have a feeling my GB is going to go from crazy sharp to lightsaber by the end of this. This has fixed my only complaint about the Sharpmaker as a system. And all for about $20 shipped for 2 sets of these stones. My only regret is that I didn't get any in the 80 grit range, as I feel that might speed up the process even more.

I would def recommend these if anyone is looking to reprofile without headache on their Sharpmaker.
 
I received my two triangular ruby stones from Congress Tools. They are rough. I had trouble getting them to fit in my Sharpmaker and it took a bit of doing to get them to set correctly. Seems the stones are a bit oversize and the edges are sharp as opposed to the Sharpmaker stones that have a slight radius.

I put them in the 40deg. side as they fit better in that side and re-profiled a Victorinox Electrician that I had readily available. The stones cut rapidly but leave a substantial set of scratches in the edge as I said the stones have quite a rough texture. After setting the edge, I used the edge of the dark Sharpmaker rods to smooth out the edge whereupon the knife would take hair off my arm.

I will try re-profiling a knife with harder steel later to see how well the rods cut.
 
Im considering picking up some moldmasters as well. Any suggestions on a good grits? I was thinking of getting 2 80's 3/4"x1/4", and 2 240's, same dimensions. Once I get done with the 240's I was planning on going to the medium sharpmaker stones. Should I get some intermediate stones?

Does this sound like a good way to go? I haven't done much reprofiling. I have used a norton stone freehand, and it was effective, but it left kind of a rough bevel that I couldn't really smooth out.

Thanks in advance
 
Bringing this thread back from the dead…like others here I’m looking for a cheaper (and more effective) option to the standard diamond rods for the Sharpmaker.

The Moldmasters from Congress Tools seem to be one of the better options but like the poster before me I’m looking for opinions on which grits to get seeing as I don’t have the 400-grit diamond rods to transition over to the brown/grey rods

I’ve been looking at the getting two each of the 120, 240, 400 grits in 1X1/8x6 sizes but I’m not sure if such a detailed transition of grits is necessary.

I don’t have knives with super-hardened steels (most of my users have common, non-exotic metals e.g. 1095 etc) and the re-profiling I’d need would largely be for chipped edges or kitchen knives that have had bad edges put on them from poor sharpening techniques

Is there a better combination of grits to get? Do I even need so many?
 
barber oregon said:
Bringing this thread back from the dead…like others here I’m looking for a cheaper (and more effective) option to the standard diamond rods for the Sharpmaker.

The Moldmasters from Congress Tools seem to be one of the better options but like the poster before me I’m looking for opinions on which grits to get seeing as I don’t have the 400-grit diamond rods to transition over to the brown/grey rods

I’ve been looking at the getting two each of the 120, 240, 400 grits in 1X1/8x6 sizes but I’m not sure if such a detailed transition of grits is necessary.

I don’t have knives with super-hardened steels (most of my users have common, non-exotic metals e.g. 1095 etc) and the re-profiling I’d need would largely be for chipped edges or kitchen knives that have had bad edges put on them from poor sharpening techniques

Is there a better combination of grits to get? Do I even need so many?
Click to expand...
I have either the 240 or the 360 grit ruby triangle rods. I had no problem getting them to fit the sharpmaker. On all the knives I have used the ruby stones on I go right to the brown stones on the sharpmaker, which is working great for me. Worked a nick out of a CPM154 blade in about 5 or 10 minutes.
 
Hey steel130, it sounds like you only got one set of ruby triangle rods, correct?

If that works for re-profiling, then that would be optimal -- in terms of cost, speed and even storage getting only a single additional set would be the most convenient.

PS I think you meant you got 320 grit(?) they don't seem to have the Ruby in 360
 
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