Check out this tool - Hand made surface grinder that uses a belt

That's a great looking machine! Click "next" and "previous" for more photos...I think there are about 4 photos total.
 
Those open gears make that a very dangerous machine to operate. At the very least the gears should be caged. Plus the machine needs a dust collector.

If you want a belt surface grinder you'd be better off converting a stone machine to take a belt.

I'm not impressed.
 
How is that any more dangerous then the square wheels we are all using? My 2x72 has no guards on any of the pulleys or contact wheels. It is very hard to engineer out stupidity on machinery.
 
I visit 2 machining forums.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php

is where I found those pics. This website is for more of the professional machinist.

For more of the home shop machinist, there is HSM found here

http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/index.php

HSM is a little easier to get non technical answers out of. Its has some incredibly smart people, just a little more willing to help a newbie. PM has very smart very technical people. And it seems they have a little less patience. Between those to 2 you can get just about any machining question answered.
 
Ring said:
I visit 2 machining forums.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php

is where I found those pics. This website is for more of the professional machinist.

For more of the home shop machinist, there is HSM found here

http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/index.php

HSM is a little easier to get non technical answers out of. Its has some incredibly smart people, just a little more willing to help a newbie. PM has very smart very technical people. And it seems they have a little less patience. Between those to 2 you can get just about any machining question answered.
Click to expand...


Oh, those forums. I thought you had machining forums of your own. I think those two are owned by Don Thomas and Home Shop Machinist magazine respectively :)
 
B Finnigan said:
How is that any more dangerous then the square wheels we are all using? My 2x72 has no guards on any of the pulleys or contact wheels. It is very hard to engineer out stupidity on machinery.
Click to expand...

Look at the other pictures of the machine, the table is driven by unshielded meshing gears. That is much more dangerous than a square wheel grinder which has no meshing gears at all. You can't sell a machine like that or use it in any shop unless you want to be sued or shut down. Why? Because it's inherently bad and dangerous design. You're watching the workpiece and get a finger or clothing in the gears and end up crippled. If that's not obvious to you, I don't know how to explain it any better.

Not to mention the unshielded ways on the machine and the lack of any dust collection.

Sorry but that machine wouldn't get in the door of my shop. Not even for free.

Well designed commercial surface grinders are potentially very dangerous in the best of cases. Using a belt can reduce the dangers from direct traumatic injury but they're still dangerous.

I almost lost a finger 2 weeks ago on my stone surface grinder. I was careless for a second and then I was in surgery.

The machine pictured is a potential disaster. Take a look at some of the other belt conversions people have posted around the net. Most of them are based on decent commercial machines. That's the way to go if you want a surface grinder.
 
You just made my point for me. It doesn't look like your surface grinder was any safer to use with all the saftey features in place. I worked for 13 yrs as an EMT and I transported hundreds of industrial injury patients to the hospital. All of the machinery was in federal and state compliance plus the "in house" SOP's for opertating them. But carelessness, distractions, rushing the job or just not paying attention will defeat any built in safeguards. I saw that repeatedly in my former line of work.

My metal lathe has far more injury potential then the above surface grinder has. I would have no problem having that machine in my shop. Any time I get a new piece of power equipment the first thing I do is remove either all or most of the saftey devices that would get in the way of utilizing it to it's fullest potential.

When I do get an injury I have only myself to blame, not the machine.
 
Actually you're missing the point.

A properly designed machine protects the operator from himself and makes it as close to impossible as is humanly possible for the operator to be injured correctly using the machine. The machine pictured here has what amounts to an unprotected meat grinder installed at crotch level on the side of the machine. If that's your idea of something you want in your shop, have at it.

Anyone who has worked around machines and in shops where they are operated (my first job in a web offset printer was in 1977) knows that accidents will happen. Everyone makes mistakes. The equipment should be designed to make those accidents as minor as possible. The machine pictured is designed to make a serious accident all but inevitable. If you worked in a hospital you should know what will happen to a finger that gets caught in those gears. And if you work around machiines you should know just how quickly and easily that will happen with that machine.

If you know how to operate your lathe and don't do anything really stupid, you are likely to be fine. (You do remove all rings, watches and jewelry I hope?) Your lathe is far less inherently dangerous than the surface grinder pictured. Of course you can still be injured using it. And if you use it long enough, you will make a mistake.

With any luck, anyone using that surface grinder would find the ways ruined from grinding debris before they mangaged injure themselves.

You are correct in one respect: Anyone using that machine would only have themselves to blame.

Again: Take a look a look at a real surface grinder and if the bad funtional design as well as the catastrophic safety issues in the one pictured on this threaed aren't apparent, well,... good luck to ya.
 
Kevin makes a good point...but I still like the machine. It reflects the spirit of designing and building it yourself with the means that you have avaliable. It has been cleverly thought out and robustly built. If it is a good machine or not...I don't know, but I'm sure for the builder ...the journey was just as good or even better than the destination. I'm sure he enjoyed designing it, and from the details in the photos, he certainly enjoyed building it. Truly a man after my heart.

We really don't know the complete story about this machine or the photos. Perhaps the photos were taken to demonstrate a particular feature or to explain a point. Obviously, whoever built this machine, has the skills to install guards...maybe the guards were removed for the photos...

or perhaps this machine is a prototype..intended to investigate the feasibility of the design concept. For an initial tryout in a controlled environment...guards may not be needed.

or maybe this was built and photographed to test the waters of a potential market of customers. No better place than on the web!

...we really don't know the details.

Since there is a knife on the mag chuck...this person must be a knifemaker..and a shop guy at heart. I hope he a forum member because I'm sure he has something to offer all of us.

Ring, thanks for the post. I think this machine deserves a lot of credit and will get the attention of many knifemakers should it prove to be worthy for the task. After all, they laughed and criticized the Wright Brothers.

Sincerely,
Rob
 
I think there's a lot to like about this machine, and I think those are obvious to most of us.

There are a few things that make me go, huh?
First, Keven is right. A guard would be good for those gears and building one should be a piece of cake for the skilled maker of this machine.
The other thing that strikes me is that, as neat as the thing is, it's a heck of a lot easer (and probably quite a bit cheaper, all told) to just pick up a nice, used surface grinder and convert it to belt.
The ways on a conventional surface grinder are inherently stiffer, better protected, and longer wearing than the round bearings on this machine. Also, it's difficult to tell if the Z-axis will be as finely adjustable as a conventinal machine. Looks like pretty course threads.
All-in-all it probably works fine.

Incidentally, last year I finished a 36-inch (length of the mag chuck) 2x72 belt surface grinder with adjustible sine and tilting table for flattening tapered sword forgings. The base is a Hanchett "knife grinder" but everything above the X axis, plus the hydraulic drive had to be made. I'd like to post a picture (There's no picture of it on my badly outdated site). If you like this machine, you'll probably enjoy seeing mine too. Can build a machine, but have never posted a picture to a forum before, shees!
 
Neat looking little grinder but I have to agree with Kevin on this one (in regards to the open gears).Those guys could reach out and grab you QUICK !! Hate to see a hand come out on the other side of those guys!
 
The fact it does not have a guard in place would not deter me from either building or buying one like that. Very few of us buy a piece of equipment without modifying it to some exent.

I have never contemplated buying/not buying a piece of equipment just because it had a guard that would be in the way or that it did not have one.

To me it's irrelevant and can be quickly fixed either way. I am much more focused on the simplicity and the performance of a machine. The surface grinder pictured above is in my humble opinion a simple but effective design that looks to be easily fixed when something breaks on it. My negative experiences with bench power equipment have been breakdowns and expensive fixes, not injuries. For the next person it may be something entirely different. It's all perspective.
 
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