Check this out, and please give opinions / suggestions

B . Buxton

B . Buxton

Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
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I finished this up this morning, its been laying in my shop all heat treated and needing a handle for quite a while. I am trying to come up with a hand ax that will never need a handle replacement, if the scales would come loose the ax would still be very functionable. Do you think this would sell, at what kind of price do you think would be reasonable but still appealing, I know about what I have in it material and time wise, so want to match it with any suggested prices to see if at all worth pursueing making more. What would you change about it? Oal 15 3/4" w 2 3/4" cutting edge, weight 17oz. The handle is wenge, but that could change. I felt that wood, would be better then other materials like horn or antler, because its not as cold on the hand in winter. Steel 52100, forged from 1" round stock, ax steel thickness 1/4". Any and all suggestions and opinions would be appreciated, if you think it looks stupid tell me, I would truly like to know.

Thanks,

Bill
 
Bill
Very sharp looking work,I really like it,the lines flow very nice
is it convex ground?The Ax should have a very good power stroke
with alot leverage.:)
 
I think that it is great. Very nice indeed. I might change the handle to say something like G10, but that is just personal taste. I wouldn't change anything else.
 
Hey Bill

As with anything, there are tradeoffs with this design. A steel hafted ax may remain functional even under the most destructive conditions, but the tradeoff is added weight and different weight distribution. The physics of an effective ax cut depend in part upon the inertia generated with a weight-forward design. While I can't tell how your design would feel without actually swinging it myself, I, as a potential buyer, would want that point addressed.

Other considerations are weight and ease of carry for outdoors use. Will this appeal to hikers and campers? Or would this be something folks would keep in the truck for emergency use?

For comparative purposes, the Gerber Camp ax has a 2.5" cutting edge, a 17.5" OAL, and it weighs 36.8 oz. It has an "indestructible" fiberglass handle and a beefy weight-forward design. Since you stated that you wanted to "come up with a hand ax that will never need a handle replacement," perhaps you might also consider some synthetic handle materials.

Just some food for thought. Personally, I think the design holds some promise, and it's relative simplicity would quite possibly allow you to make it a worthwhile endeavor to produce for a broader market.
 
I think it's rather beautiful in a weird way. It looks like a modern, artistic impression of a primitive hand axe. Hard for me to put into words.:confused:

Almost like an artists sculpture.:eek: :)
 
Kind of looks like something the Grim Reaper
would carry Bill. I would call that one the
grim reaper survival axe. LOL
I like the design Bill, nice work !!!
I'd leave it just the way it is.
Ron Duncan
Duncan Made Knives
Cairo, MO
 
Bill,

I know that WILL appeal to some people. I would say around the $250 - 325 price range would be fair.

Mark
 
That's a tough one Bill. I love the workmanship and design....I agree with wulf that the weight would be better spent on the head. It is a special purpose hatchet and I'm afraid it will sell like many special purpose tools. Some people will buy huge knives to "survive " in the wilderness but will not spend penny one on a hatchet/ax. Others will opt for a design like the Facine knives circa 1700's. That's the down side, you have to find your market.

Price.....I've gotta go with Mark....350ish and for the life of me, I don't know how you make a profit at that.

Sorry for sounding like a doubting Thomas but you wanted an honest opinion. Hatchets just don't appeal to the Rambo crowd and not everyone sees the true value of a hatchet.

I will say this about your design. I've been trying to come up with a way to have a steel handle on a fairly light hatchet without forging a T out of solid stock. Your design beats all those production problems. I am just amazed at the innovative designs you come up with!
 
I have to agree with Mike, it's strange but, like it. Made me perk up when the picture came up because that was not what I had in mind. Stylish and cool. Plus, if you don't want to split a skull with it you could always hook 'em like Bo Peep. I'd say $200-300.00
 
Bill - The design is pure eye candy. I love it.

That said, I have a few concerns/questions.

1 - as a user, I would be worried about whether or not the long blade would "torque" in the hand during use. In other words, is there a possibility that it would flex on impact and when retracting from the hit? I ask that because my hand naturally twists when I chop with a khukuri - helps in clearing the chips out of the cut.

I guess it's like the problem with most full suspension mountain bikes - some of the umph you put into a pedal is absorbed by the shocks, instead of being sent straight to the ground.

Make sense?


2 - Deflection. Without a straight connection (straight meaning the shortest distant between 2 points) from your hand to the striking point, I would be concerned that the blade would have a tendency to deflect. I imagine with practice you could anticipate it, though.





Things I'm not concerned about:

1 - Will it cut well? I think so. The convex edge on a 52100 blade seems like a winner to me.

2 - Will it feel awkward in the hand? Again, I don't think so. The first time I used a khukuri it was like it was from another planet. Then I got used to it, and now can't imagine never having one on hand. Actually, I think you could get even a bit more aggressive with the curve and bend it even farther forward. I assume you were mimicking the strike point of a hatchet? I'd be interested to see how far you could push it forward. Many khukuris have a bend angle of nearly 35 degrees. :eek:

3 - The handle material. I think wood is a good choice. Synthetic materials aren't as gentle on the hands as wood is.

4 - Tang. I'm wondering what it would have been like with a hidden tang...nope. I like the full tang. Seems like you could have put a lil' curve at the end of it though. Design-wise that would have made it a bit smarter.

5 - Getting stuck in wood. I would think that if you ever got it stuck, you should be able to pull it out with your hand, or maybe a lever if necessary. The design lends itself well to this.




Price:

I wonder if it's going to be a tough sell and here's my reasoning:

I suspect the typical axe buyer won't pay more than $100 for a hatchet, even a well-designed one. It would need to be sold as an "art" or "heavy-duty". Yet the design speaks of light-duty usage. You could sell it as an "art knife" but if that's the case, I'd go with something else besides wenge. Maybe Osage or something tough (or exotic) that will finish nicely.



Have I given you enough to chew on?



Bill - it's a brilliant design and you have certainly inspired me to rethink a few of my designs and ideas. Keep up the good work. It is real beauty. (hurry up and patent the design so I can't "borrow" it...ok?) :D
 
I like it a lot just because its not the same old stuff. Its fresh and thats a good thing, I like what George said Swan!
 
Thanks everyone for the comments.

Wulf, when I was hammering this out I had more of the backpacker in mind. I understand what your saying about the weight, but I was going for an ax that wouldn't be a burden to carry (weight wise) but still be very useful on smaller limbs and such, 2"-3" diameter. I also was thinking that the curve of the handle would make it like a hook, if a person ever needed to drag an item or use it to hook over something to help climb. It is really quite balanced from front to back. Meaning its not blade side heavy, but still appears to be heavy enough to cut quite vigorously. I wouldn't want to use it to cut my winters wood though, thats for sure. As for fiberglass being indestructable, unless they've changed it in hammer handles the last couple years, the fiberglass handles I used could/would splinter and break, but the shock on the hand, wrist and elbow is less with the fiberglass.
I'm not disagreeing with your suggestions, just trying to describe this piece a little better, so you might get a better idea of what it was intended for. If weight needs to be added to the head area to make it more appealing, I will have to come up with bigger stock or forge weld added steel to the head area, either way its going to add more labor and probably make it less likely to produce and come out ahead, at a reasonable price.

As for the torque, I assume your meaning trying to twist in you hand on a angleing blow, it doesn't appear to twist. I think that might be because of the long thin blade, takes a good bite into wood no matter what the angle hit. I'm sure if you would slap the side of the head against a tree or large stick by misjudgeing the swing it will definately try to take off, but about anything would do that.

I appreciate you questions and opinions, hopefully I've helped answer some of them so you might have a better idea of its ability. The handle material is no problem,being just scales any material could be used, I just figured wood, would be a lot easier to handle in cold weather. Another thing I could try is to make the handle shaft straight up and then curve the head out ahead of the hand, I don't know if this would cause it to want to glance off or not when hitting something, but it would definately be more out of balance.
I guess the thing I did was try to balance this ax up more like a throwing hawk, and maybe that was wrong.

I would like to hear any more suggestions, I'll take all into consideration and try to hammer out another in a couple weeks.

Thanks,

Bill
 
yep! it differnt. the fantasy art crowd? or BO PEEP GOES NUTS! and slaghters all the sheep;) well one thing i have learned Bill is to put it out on the table and let the customer decide. one idea for you is to add one more function to it. a hammer head on the back or a edge on the inside of the tang below the head that you could cut rope with. sort of like a scythe blade. also i belive a true hand AXE,no handle, was called a AZE. so thats the name i would suggest. we can always start marketing even if were not done with the design.:)
 
Looks nice, but,

Axes, hatchets, khukuries and many bolos have the cutting edge below the line defined by the the handle. This is ergonomic unless chopping somewhat above waist-height. In a way, it guarantees chopping "through" the target. Your tool is more like a cut-away bowie with little belly. OK, you can argue it's easier to make axes the original way, but it's extra effort to make a bend like on a khukuri or put in a big belly like on a bolo or barong. Gotta be a reason that was done by folk depending on these tools. Bending the handle down (like on many barongs, older khukiries and indeed some hatchets) and angling the edge to compensate would acheive a similar effect.

Full tang choppers also may have shock issues to the hand, and it seems that getting balance and center of percussion with this design might be tricky--if you've solved those issues, congrats!!

Put another edge on the very end and you might have a good weapon though I've no experience in using edged implements for fighting. Intimidating anyway.

My two cents, and likely worth less.
 
This is one of those things that you'd have to handle. I visited Bill a while ago (still haven't posted the pics from that :confused: :D ) and I got to handle the axe. It's different, but feels very effective.
 
Bill
I would not let that one leave your shop for under 250
I like that is out side the box,it is very appealing to me
I do agree I don't think it is for cutting wood,but for
clearing shooting lanes for bow stands I think that would be
just the ticket:) If I was not saving for a contour grinder
I would take that off your hands;)
 
Nice looking design. It leaves a great deal of options while keeping the same look. ie wider blade- thinner blade, longer handle, thicker
thicker head. All would change the balance and feel. great idea.
 
Originally posted by firkin
Looks nice, but,

Axes, hatchets, khukuries and many bolos have the cutting edge below the line defined by the the handle.
Click to expand...


Go back to the photo and draw the imaginary line from the handle forward. I think you will find that the edge is 1-2" below the handle line.:)
 
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