China knife steel origin

imafritz

imafritz

Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
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There is regular talk on China Bucks and I'm not expressing an opinion of love or hate. I notice my 371 and 373 Stockmans blades and although there is a slight blade shape difference, the metal looks the same. So the question is: Does China get their blade steel from the same supplier as Buck USA or do they get it in china itself?
 
Fritz,

Like you I am waiting for someone with actual knowledge to answer......all I can do on this one is guess.....

300
 
It would not be cost effective to ship American steel to China.

It has to be steel from a Chinese plant. China has many.
 
Whats your guess 300?


Knarfeng, I agree with you, but I didnt know(and dont) if 420hc all come from a single company like s30v comes from crucible.
I know China makes a lot of steel because when I was a parts store manager I sold a ton of junk a** rotors and drums for cheap.



oops just expressed an opinion-my bad, said I wasnt
 
imafritz said:
Whats your guess 300?


Knarfeng, I agree with you, but I didnt know(and dont) if 420hc all come from a single company like s30v comes from crucible.
I know China makes a lot of steel because when I was a parts store manager I sold a ton of junk a** rotors and drums for cheap.



oops just expressed an opinion-my bad, said I wasnt
Click to expand...

Not all 420HC is from a single mfg.
There is no actual specification for 420HC, so the exact composition may vary a bit from mill to mill. It would not be a visible difference. It might be a small performance difference. But, as has been said so many times before, the main difference between Buck 420HC and that of other knife companies is the heat treatment schedule developed for Buck by Paul Bos.
 
the main difference between Buck 420HC and that of other knife companies is the heat treatment schedule developed for Buck by Paul Bos.
Click to expand...

I doubt Paul Bos/Buck went over and showed a Chinese contractor how to do his HT. Another good reason to buy Idaho Bucks.
 
Fritz,

Not ingnoring you, Knarfeng is my go to guy for metal questions......I have not sharpened my 3 China Stockman, don't use/carry them. Have them for educational purposes. HOWEVER, the china limited edition opposite ended trapper in jigged bone, which I have carried and sharpened several times, seems CLOSE to Bos 420HC. That said there are few slipjoints in Sv30 so I am always comparing my knife world to 440A or 425. Few Buck slipjoints were ever 440C maybe the first year Schrade contracts. I believe most Cami contract knvies were 440A. That is all an opinion and not documented or quoted from someone who was actually there.......300Bucks
 
300Bucks said:
Fritz,

Not ingnoring you, Knarfeng is my go to guy for metal questions......I have not sharpened my 3 China Stockman, don't use/carry them. Have them for educational purposes. HOWEVER, the china limited edition opposite ended trapper in jigged bone, which I have carried and sharpened several times, seems CLOSE to Bos 420HC. That said there are few slipjoints in Sv30 so I am always comparing my knife world to 440A or 425. Few Buck slipjoints were ever 440C maybe the first year Schrade contracts. I believe most Cami contract knvies were 440A. That is all an opinion and not documented or quoted from someone who was actually there.......300Bucks
Click to expand...

Hey 300,

Thanks but I didnt figger you were ignoring me. Being the professor of the
Stockman 301 class here at Knife U., I gathered you were researching.

I did have the opportunity to sharpen a 373 that I dulled up nicely cutting out and modifying a turnsignal mounting bucket to fit the new style t/s assy on a volvo at work. Put it on the croc sticks and 15-20 strokes each side and it came out sharp enough to shave the hair off my arm. Don't know if that proves anything one way or another but it was no harder or easier to sharpen it as opposed to my 110 in similar dull condition.

Fritz
 
i have a buck110 with a idaho stamp and a buck model284 that is made in china and the 110 holds a edge a lot longer than the china made buck when cutting cardboard the 110 cut twice as much before it dulls

and when i go to sharpen on a spyderco sharpmaker the china steel does not take the same hair poping edge that the 110 does it is also harder to remove the wire edge on the china steel it seems to roll over

when i strop on a piece of green rouge loaded cardboard then white loaded leather the 110 get super sharp and the china steel will roll unless i use a steep angle i think the heat treat on the china steel is not up to par with the idaho steel so i will not be buying anymore china buck knives i will stick with made in america

lee
 
Yeah I dont know if the croc stics are a fair testing ground. theyre made for unskilled guys like me who cant sharpen a lick and will only get certain steels so sharp but do keep us from ruining a profile.
 
imafritz said:
There is regular talk on China Bucks and I'm not expressing an opinion of love or hate. I notice my 371 and 373 Stockmans blades and although there is a slight blade shape difference, the metal looks the same. So the question is: Does China get their blade steel from the same supplier as Buck USA or do they get it in china itself?
Click to expand...

the knives Buck gets from China are 440C steel
it is good for Chinese steel ..
not as good as 440HC from Bos
but for a throw away knife it is very good
 
The Chinese Bucks I have were advertised as 420HC. And while perhaps throw away price, they're every bit as good as any Idaho Buck.

I doubt Paul Bos/Buck went over and showed a Chinese contractor how to do his HT. Another good reason to buy Idaho Bucks.
Click to expand...

Is it really necessary for Bos himself to go to China and wave his magic wand in order to get good results? Couldn't Buck have simply sent over a good recipe to follow? Bos may have indeed come up with a good process, but he's sometimes treated around here as if he has magical powers that nobody else could possibly obtain. Or in this case, for some reason, he presumably has to physically show the Chinese factory what to do. And we don't even know that he didn't! It could be the case that the Chinese manufacturers really do use steel every bit as good as Idaho's, and were trained first hand by Bos himself. The results are pretty hard to actually distinguish. Nobody's ever produced anything but anecdotes that one is superior, or even different, than the other.
 
I worked in Russia for a year to initiate an operation when an American printing company set up book production in Russia. Their (Russian) ways of doing business and manufacturing were very different from ours, so we needed Americans over there, even after I returned to the US.

I would suspect a similar situation for China, however I don't know in the case of Buck. I would be very interested to hear from a Buck insider on this. I know a lot of American manufacturers and businessmen who are constantly going back and forth between the USA and China.
 
i thought 420 hc also.. but dont know..
my little china slippy i keep in tackle box was ok..
much to my surprise..
some how i can not see Bos showing china how to cook steel..
 
sharp dude said:
the knives Buck gets from China are 440C steel
it is good for Chinese steel ..
not as good as 440HC from Bos
but for a throw away knife it is very good
Click to expand...

Please provide source for that information.

I have seen some advertised as 440A, most are advertised as 420HC.

I have seen none advertised as 440C.
 
shecky said:
The Chinese Bucks I have were advertised as 420HC. And while perhaps throw away price, they're every bit as good as any Idaho Buck.



Is it really necessary for Bos himself to go to China and wave his magic wand in order to get good results? Couldn't Buck have simply sent over a good recipe to follow? Bos may have indeed come up with a good process, but he's sometimes treated around here as if he has magical powers that nobody else could possibly obtain. Or in this case, for some reason, he presumably has to physically show the Chinese factory what to do. And we don't even know that he didn't! It could be the case that the Chinese manufacturers really do use steel every bit as good as Idaho's, and were trained first hand by Bos himself. The results are pretty hard to actually distinguish. Nobody's ever produced anything but anecdotes that one is superior, or even different, than the other.
Click to expand...


No one else in the industry takes 420HC to a 58 HRC. Even Latrobe, the makers of much cutlery steel and a supplier of 420HC only provide a schedule to take it to a max of 55HRC.

Sending a proprietary process to China is not something I would expect of Buck Knives.
Could it happen? Yes.
Did it? I doubt it.
 
The steel for the China pocket knives comes from China. We have used 440A and a 420HC type of steel. As for heat treat, we have not necessarily instructed them in precisely how we heat treat, but we have specified certain temperatures and our engineering and new products groups visit to review produciton processing and review quality requirements.

Bill Keys
Director Manufacturing and Engineering
Buck Knives, Inc.
 
Thanks again for your input, Mr. Keys. It's always great to hear insider information. It clarifies a lot of things.
 
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