china steel or paki damscus - which is woarse? thx 4 a great site

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dragonsprayer

Joined
Apr 24, 2013
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369
ok, i own no china steel knives.

I own a few paki damscus, 25 which not many, most are many years old.

Most steel in paki is low grade high carbon damscus but this is scrape from us, japan, and eu or posco.

China steel is china quality which is no standards, while eu, us, japan and korea have strick standards.

So which is woarse china steel, who knows what is in each batch, how it was degassed or what ever vs paki damscus?

thx guys i be back for answer before i get the first day troll award, i been using this site for years great info. I learned a few things today! thx!
 
I think it's too broad of a question for anyone to answer accurately.

I'm going to side with Chinese steel from a trusted manufacturer (spyderco, Kershaw, etc...) they seem to more or less have a "standard" now of their steel, and you know what you will be getting with their 8cr knives and such. Obviously there are still Chinese factories using glorified pot steel that has been mislabeled to sell at flea markets, but there does at least seem to be some consistency among the larger producers.

Pakistan seems like more of a wild card to me, I don't know of any reliable companies producing Damascus knives there that are known to be good users. You might find some batches that are 1075 or 1085 mixed with some random other steel that have okay edge holding properties with a good heat treat, but I just don't see anything near consistency with the Damascus. Seems too easy to just fudge with the steel with whatever they have on hand.

I could be completely ignorant on Pakistan knives, if there are some trusted makers producing there I'd love to know. I just don't know of any.
 
First, thank you! Second I am new but i own well over 300 knives so many i can not list them.

I have used this forum for years, one maker in my war with for years is customknife on ebay the scammer.

He clearly stated his stuff in chineese only after marketing as EU made, ebay does not care, and there is molti bidders. My biz was on ebay, my hobby is knives - i am knife junkie.

I have not bought foriegn made damscus for years, and i am sure quality has gone down not up as i have some good ones - custom knife makes a good knife for $50, i have 5 or more. but for $400 or $200 scam city. I have proof of this and he went private. I done many hundreds of thoasands on ebay, computers and much more.

I also am a refractory engineer with metelurgy background, and extensive knowlege of all mills - i was at the nucor start up, i been in CPM etc.

So boy scouts, hunting and my biz = knife junkie. My son has knife on his matress and slept with one as kid. Cub scout knife folding on my finger led me too lock blades to fix blades. I hone knives for hours on fine with and edge that can butcher dear for years with my trusty kersaw kai steel fix blade (1095 i think my does not have a model number and matching folder from 70's-80's) classic. Not sharpened in 20 years, and butcher in field from deer too bone too zip locks, legal, many times.

I want you too know my back ground, i own many many high end us made knives. I carry loveless fighter $300 by davis. I broke it in by opening a sardine can like butter - if your going to use it use it.

So this china metal thing is new, and i know a lot about china refractory, bauxite and other products - i do not just trust them. it has been proven time and time again no standards like the rest of world, china is it's own world.

I do agree that the makers QC slabs, but, what is the QC program for china steel knife?

I do not mind a china made knife, vs china steel knife, this whole thing tells me there be a lot bunk knives in peoples boxes untill we find out there steel code is bs.
So expect more seconds on ebay that use china steel - that is my prediction

sorry for being so rude my first day but engineers are weird, we want facts and specs, i love this site - thx~
 
I generally enjoy the higher end Chinese steels (like 8cr13mov, 9cr13MOV, 8cr14MOV). Some of the other alphabet soup steels that Gerber and the like seem so fond of I don't really enjoy though. The Chinese are fairly industrialized, so there is some degree of self regulation. While the QC for steel is far more questionable for no-name brands, I have found the QC on some Chinese domestic manufacturers to be quite comparable to larger American manufacturers.

I avoid Pakistani Damascus like the plague. Mystery metal. :barf:
 
Chinese steel is fine regular steel. IF you want specs, just go to cold steel, spyderco, kershaw or just about any large commercial knife brand and check out their steels.
 
I have no problems with Chinese steels from reputable manufacturers like Kershaw or Spyderco, I have no issue with the steels used in their China made knives. Yeah, they do dull quicker than a $90 S30V knife, but they're easy to sharpen, and certainly sufficient for opening boxes, envelopes, cutting cord, etc. As long as you're not trying to do anything too crazy with them like dig through dirt or chop down a tree limb or use them as a pry-bar they work perfectly fine.
 
Let me tell one of many stories how a product from china almost ruined my dads company and i consult at it.

They build steel bubbling lances, my dad holds the patent, i design refractory. His company was getting brick from china for bottoms at burns harbor the last intergrated mill built in the usa in the 60's. I worked in the mill as brick layer labor, salesman and engineer. This was last year and they been making this brick or similar for 2 decades.

One bad batch of brick, the ladels failed in half the time, this cost a lot of money. They lost the biz.

I just give 2, when china came on with bauxite for refractory. This is 3000 f plus stable aggregate for high temp apps and cheap. They consistent sizing issues which would ruin a batch of refractory, even if it was the main ingrediant it was small amout of the over all cost. Next they had poorly calcined baxuite, so it fell apart. It needs too go too glass/crystal stage for usage.

Ever see chineese mine? It used man size hole and baskets.

Ok i could go on, I expect you see the same thing with their steel. Bad loads, lots of seconds. I carry a chineese buck sandman made with 440HC, I just the specs. If your in an emergency and your new knife fails was it worth the risk?

Just make sure you fully test it. I made this post too see if I should buy some, i own well over 300 knives, pakis, indos, mayas and over 100 us made higher end customs. Many mass produced us knives. All are known alloy, 440c is great i love it. 420HC is good steel.

Fancy powder blends from cruciable are next tech level and prices will come down. I own many D2, O1, ATS34 besides high carbons.

I think in the end, generic mini shops, will put out bunk STEEL and slap on the china names, just like they have done in many areas. There are no laws, and it is encourged too the point of free land and anti labor laws.

Finally as a large collector i like to HEAR from kerwaw (i own dozen or more folders, low end, leaks, ZT ect and fixed blades) (i love them), spyderco (overprice IMHO and i do not like the opening hole) and other big knife makers. What is the QC? Do they test the steel not just the blade - hardness is one of many issues. Small impurties and years later you got rust bucket.

I came here too learn not to be an idiot so I hope I do not offend anyone - I do come off wrong and type bad since i have issues with my eyes. Too many years building computers.
 
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DShiflet said:
I have no problems with Chinese steels from reputable manufacturers like Kershaw or Spyderco, I have no issue with the steels used in their China made knives. Yeah, they do dull quicker than a $90 S30V knife, but they're easy to sharpen, and certainly sufficient for opening boxes, envelopes, cutting cord, etc. As long as you're not trying to do anything too crazy with them like dig through dirt or chop down a tree limb or use them as a pry-bar they work perfectly fine.
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what will be like in few years?
what happens if it is humid and it gets wet?
will the steel degrade or fail though a long process?

Do not forget when you use a knife a lot, you learn it, if you learn a knife and it is bunk was worth saving a few bucks. Again I test a lot of knives, it is my hobby. Most likely I will get many of their alloys.

Aus-6 and aus-8 i think, i have some of those too.
 
dragonsprayer said:
what will be like in few years?
what happens if it is humid and it gets wet?
will the steel degrade or fail though a long process?

Do not forget when you use a knife a lot, you learn it, if you learn a knife and it is bunk was worth saving a few bucks. Again I test a lot of knives, it is my hobby. Most likely I will get many of their alloys.

Aus-6 and aus-8 i think, i have some of those too.
Click to expand...

If you take care of the knife, rust isn't an issue...and even if you buy a $300 knife, if it gets wet and you don't care for it, it TOO will rust unless you're knife is one of those Spyderco H-1 or similar knives. I've carried China made knives for years without issues as long as you can sharpen it. As others have said, the Chinese steels used by Kershaw and Spyderco perform similar to AUS-8, they are easy to sharpen and get very sharp, but they don't remain sharp for as long, so you will have to sharpen them more often than you will with an S30V or something. So as I said, it depends on what you're doing-are you opening boxes and packages, cutting cords, that sort of thing? As long as you don't mind an occasional sharpening, you'll be fine. Are you trying to use your Tenacious or Skyline as a machete, or entrenching tool, or prybar? Buy a machete, or entrenching tool, or prybar and keep the folder in your pocket. I'm sorry you and your dad had bricks fail on you, but that doesn't mean all Chinese products are bad.
 
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