Chinese Katanas

Can't tell much from those images; but the nakago(s) appear very short. Personally, even if I had details about the steel, I would be uncomfortable using them as anything other than ornaments.
 
hhmoore said:
Can't tell much from those images; but the nakago(s) appear very short. Personally, even if I had details about the steel, I would be uncomfortable using them as anything other than ornaments.
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Yeah I just want any inciites into the actual steel quality from the pics. I have a chance to pick them up for very cheap and use them to practice my sharpening and tempering skills. Three of these apear to be a folded steel of some sort.
 
greensngravy said:
Yeah I just want any inciites into the actual steel quality from the pics. I have a chance to pick them up for very cheap and use them to practice my sharpening and tempering skills. Three of these apear to be a folded steel of some sort.
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The nakagos are actually at least as long and stout as the genuine Japanese katanas of the early Muromachi Period.
 
Don t even waste your time. The blades are forged in China and although they are a Damascus or folded blade, they offer little as a practice blade or even practice material. The metal used for these lack the ability to become anything other than fast rusting door stop. You can literally step on the blade and watch the damascus pattern split at the joining folds. Its not heat-treatable, and if you file or grind it, it just exposes rusty holes, pockets and craters. Probably made from old Huffy bike frames and scrap swing sets and sold to tourist as “genuine Japanese folded samurai swords” to people who have no idea what real hada looks like.
The ito used on the swords in your pictures are shoe laces material from a fabric store....


If your looking for some good practice material to work on I would suggest going to a local suspension repair shop and asking for scraps like old leaf-spring and freshly cut new stock. Bring some donuts one morning and I guarantee you'll be grinding and shaping by sun up! Good luck! :thumbup:
 
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Spend a bit more and get a Hanwei or Cheness. I assume the objective is to have a functional sword afterwards, and these would serve your purpose.
 
What exactly are you after?
I'm reading between the lines here and I could be wrong but Im guessing you want a blade in damascus that with a little work and elbow grease you could shape, refine and make your own?
You plan on making your own Tsuka and at the end you want a functional sword capable of some backyard fun?
If this is the case, stay away from recreated or traditionally folded “damascus” swords in this price range. Its flat out dangerous.
The original Japanese sword was folded out of necessity because frankly there steel was garbage. Today, properly heat-treated mono steel is going to out preform a damascus blade from that time period..and today. People get caught up with the idea of a folded blade before they really know anything about them largely in thanks to movies like the Highlander....novice sword companies know of this demand and try to recreate and capitalize by making swords with said characteristics including even faking acid etched hamon lines calling them battle ready...
Damascus is done today primarily for beauty not for strength.

It takes decades of training to be able to use a traditionally folded sword or antique to cut with and most simply dont for obvious reasons.
Traditionally folded swords bend with even the slightest of a botched cut and its not uncommon to see practitioners of these swords constantly checking and correcting trueness by stepping on them and torqing them back strait.

If you plan on swinging a large razor blade around in your back yard choose a mono steel from a reputable manufacture. I was aware of only one “reputable” company who even made a folded blade in the lower hundreds and it looks like they have even stopped making it and probably for good reason. http://www.chenessinc.com/folded.htm
Check out more options from the same company here: http://www.chenessinc.com/
This company is the closest in price range and has a history of a decent backyard cutter in there spring steel varieties like 9260 and 1060. and are totally customizable.

For more information, this is a good place to start: http://www.bugei.com/

Good luck and be safe!
 
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weren't katana's japanese?
imho those blades look like decorative items.
those tradition blades were forged in damascus.
 
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wasn't the real damascus forging lost in time?
thought they reproduced the damascus steel but it was a much weaker variant
 
Ok, I am not purchasing the six chinese katanas thanks to the sage advice of fellow forum participants. Doing more research, I am leaning now toward a higher carbon monosteel like 1060, 9260 or 5160 spring steels. I wont use them much but its nice to know they can take a beating once in awhile. It will be worth it to stick around a 250 to 300 price point. Thanks!
 
I must be missing something...the company referenced by brandoak looks exactly like the other online chinese sword companies with the same youtube videos on how they hand forge their swords.

So...question: how does one distinguish between "crap" damascus and "good" damascus chinese blades without extensive materials testing? Do the chinese swordmakers have two tiers of damascus quality? I can understand the economic incentive of faking damascus through etching, but why would they go through the trouble of making a low grade damascus when they charge the same for 1045? I dont think the blades I was considering were etched. So answer me that. Are their two kinds of chinese damascus: the good stuff and the cheap stuff? Cuz my Shinwa can cut paper with the best of them.

I really want to understand this because I want to know the reasoning behind what I am being told.
 
you have to consider this:

first of all katana's aren't chinese from origin they were japanese.
it's like an american car being made in france
the symbol they are showing you usually is the signature of the man crafted these blades.

then look at the hilt you see those colourfull bindings.
that is an imitation of ''tsuka-maki'' a japanese art of making decorative hilts by making the use of rice ray hide and thread.

and if you look at the brass on the purple hilt picture you can see it is not actually brass

ofcourse it won't tell anything about the blade itself except they cared very little about how it was presented or sold to another person.
and usually that will follow up by a ripoff using stainless steel , they sure as hell aren't damascus

however making steel looks damascus like isn't a very expensive or time killing operation only thing you need is some acid and a tub
 
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greensngravy said:
I must be missing something...the company referenced by brandoak looks exactly like the other online chinese sword companies with the same youtube videos on how they hand forge their swords.

So...question: how does one distinguish between "crap" damascus and "good" damascus chinese blades without extensive materials testing?
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simply you don't,
look at a 1:1 replica rolex most people can't tell the difference untill the serial number is checked.
without reliable factory or craftsman information you will never know if it was real carbon damascus or a cheap look alike.
if the damascus pattern was edged into the blade it can be removed by grinding or polishing ''wich i may see on the pictures you added''
 
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I need data. I am hearing anecdotes. And please dont bring up the hardware again. Stick to the issue of the steel. Is there something inherent in those pictures I posted that indicate that the damascus is either fake or of low quality? And if not, the best you could say with confidence is that you dont know, because you havent told me if the chinese smiths actually do have a "low quality" damascus that they produce for the cheap katanas, or not. You guys sound like experts, thats why I held off on buying the katanas. I mean, guys of your expertise should be able to convey to anyone your reasoning, but I am hearing you drone on about the chinese "...using bicycle frames and old shovels..." for stock. Really?? C'mon guys, you can do better than that. The blades are folded steel, there is no doubt about that. The question I still pose is the same as before: Why would they take the time to fold crap metal? Wouldnt they just etch it and call it a day? I will get to the bottom of this. I have a contact who made a very beautifully crafted damascus hunting knife that I own who has been a sword maker for many years and I will pose these questions to him. Thats the only way I am going to get closure on the chinese damascus blade mystery. I will keep you in the loop! But it sounds like you guys already know everything.
 
greensngravy said:
I need data. I am hearing anecdotes. And please dont bring up the hardware again. Stick to the issue of the steel. Is there something inherent in those pictures I posted that indicate that the damascus is either fake or of low quality? And if not, the best you could say with confidence is that you dont know, because you havent told me if the chinese smiths actually do have a "low quality" damascus that they produce for the cheap katanas, or not. You guys sound like experts, thats why I held off on buying the katanas. I mean, guys of your expertise should be able to convey to anyone your reasoning, but I am hearing you drone on about the chinese "...using bicycle frames and old shovels..." for stock. Really?? C'mon guys, you can do better than that. The blades are folded steel, there is no doubt about that. The question I still pose is the same as before: Why would they take the time to fold crap metal? Wouldnt they just etch it and call it a day? I will get to the bottom of this. I have a contact who made a very beautifully crafted damascus hunting knife that I own who has been a sword maker for many years and I will pose these questions to him. Thats the only way I am going to get closure on the chinese damascus blade mystery. I will keep you in the loop! But it sounds like you guys already know everything.
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because they are adding "value" to a cheap/worthless material with labour..
They start with something cheap/free(crap metal), add some cheap labour to fold it and turn it into "folded steel". They then have something that can be sold for more then the cost of the crap metal and cheap labour put together...
 
nzedge said:
because they are adding "value" to a cheap/worthless material with labour..
They start with something cheap/free(crap metal), add some cheap labour to fold it and turn it into "folded steel". They then have something that can be sold for more then the cost of the crap metal and cheap labour put together...
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^This. Not every blade from China is junk. That's why I said Hanwei, out of Dalian,China, and operated by Paul Chen, who has an absolutely excellent name among collectors and makes very usable swords. You ask, we give answers, from our experience. I don't know the metallurgy, but I DO read reviews, and watch the review videos, and see the cheap chinese katanas snap off just being swung, and then Hanwei cut mats. It seems like you want us to just say "yes! those swords you can get are friggin AWESOME, and you should buy em immediately". Maybe if you want wall hangers, or something you may or may not be able to get away with swinging a few times, sure, they're perfect-but in our combined experience,-meaning we've all been where you are-all of us bought the wallhangers at first not knowing any better-all of us slowly learned and read and went through the progression to where we actually began purchasing swords that are at least safe and later very usable and practical-those Ji-bay swords are pretty to look at, and not much else. No doubt China makes some quite lovely "sword like objects"..but very few are what anyone who has been around, broke the junkers,tried cutting with them, read the reviews,etc,and been very unhappy with those exact type of blades you've linked- would call them actual swords.[video=youtube;L4I43BWR6q0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4I43BWR6q0[/video]

And NO, I don't do the "zombie" thing, but this video explains it about as good as any other and is somewhat entertaining.
 
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greensngravy said:
I need data. I am hearing anecdotes. And please dont bring up the hardware again. Stick to the issue of the steel. Is there something inherent in those pictures I posted that indicate that the damascus is either fake or of low quality? And if not, the best you could say with confidence is that you dont know, because you havent told me if the chinese smiths actually do have a "low quality" damascus that they produce for the cheap katanas, or not. You guys sound like experts, thats why I held off on buying the katanas. I mean, guys of your expertise should be able to convey to anyone your reasoning, but I am hearing you drone on about the chinese "...using bicycle frames and old shovels..." for stock. Really?? C'mon guys, you can do better than that. The blades are folded steel, there is no doubt about that. The question I still pose is the same as before: Why would they take the time to fold crap metal? Wouldnt they just etch it and call it a day? I will get to the bottom of this. I have a contact who made a very beautifully crafted damascus hunting knife that I own who has been a sword maker for many years and I will pose these questions to him. Thats the only way I am going to get closure on the chinese damascus blade mystery. I will keep you in the loop! But it sounds like you guys already know everything.
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kaotikross said:
^It seems like you want us to just say "yes! those swords you can get are friggin AWESOME, and you should buy em immediately". Maybe if you want wall hangers, or something you may or may not be able to get away with swinging a few times, sure, they're perfect-but in our combined experience,-meaning we've all been where you are-all of us bought the wallhangers at first not knowing any better-all of us slowly learned and read and went through the progression to where we actually began purchasing swords that are at least safe and later very usable and practical-those
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amen to that i remember buying a set of katana's and later i found out the hilt was welded onto the blade itself that moment i decided to never make the mistake again.
from now on when i buy something a knife a folder or even an axe i grind the reviews ritten about them.
and if there are no reviews available on that item i'll let them float till there are reviews.

''Not every blade from China is junk'' I agree on that aswell i think the china crap quality age is almost over aslong as you know where and who you buy from.
look at the spyderco tenacious in my opinion that knife is of good quality restamp the blade with usa and i spend 20 dollars more

your question is/was if the blades did look serviceable most people gave their opinion on that.
then your question was why'd they invest time in crap quality when they can just edge the blade and be done with it.

picture yourself walking trough a market and you see 2 blades available.
you have no knowledge from what material they were made.
you can see a katana wich has edged lines into the blade
and there is a katana wich was made of folded steel. '' not knowing it was scrap metal they used '' for 50 or 70 dollars more
wich one would you buy?

i had friends buying crap quality knives just on looks justifying their purchase with '' But it looks much cooler than the D2 steel blade ''

they invest the time so they can charge more money based on better looks

as i said before

without reliable information on those blades ''assuming you don't even know from who the signature on the hilt is '' you can't garuantee the blade steel or quality
i don't know how much they charge you for those blades but when you buy them and notice those blades weren't what you excpected them to be
you could still get 60 dollars each ''if you redo the hilt '' in my country ''based on the looks of the total image''
 
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