I received the Chinook today, (thanks Michael and Gary). My initial impression is that it is a very compact and heavy folder. The full liners and thick backspacers make it heavy and give it it's "tank-like" qualities. This is not to it's detriment however. Believe me, I like heft sometimes and this knife has it in spades and for it's intended usage, thankfully so. The blade's lockup is first rate and shows no play whatsoever. It seems to be a real "fixed blade" folder. It is Spyderco sharp and blade grind is very acceptable. In fact, I've already drawn "first blood" with that needle tip. As in other forumites testimonials, the blade shape seems odd, but when you handle one in person, it seems to have more utility than expected. I was "somewhat" disappointed in overall quality. It does not display Spyderco's usual attention to detail especially in the knife's inner workings. It is rough and "raw" looking but does WORK nonetheless. The one BIG complaint, (and I've heard this from other Chinook owners), is liner rubbing. The blade DOES rub the clip-side liner upon opening. You can not only feel it but you can hear it. It is not overly obtrusive but it is there. I would imagine after a few hundred openings, it would smooth out. I seem to remember that folks said you can adjust the pivot pin to alleviate this, (or was it the Sifu?), but in my estimation, this is unacceptable in this day and age. I think Sal said this is a "work in progress" and as comments come in, improvements will follow. As I stated in my Military review years ago, "if you're searching for a "user" utility/fighter this will do admirably. If you're searching for a "looker", LOOK elsewhere.
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Chinook...First Impressions...Good And Not So Good.
- Thread starter Gene
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2000
- Messages
- 845
The only thing I would change about the Chinook is the sharp corner that is exposed when the blade is folded. It's the same reason I don't really care for the Civilian. I wish that area was covered by the handle.
It is still my favorite lockback and second only to my Gunting as a tactical folder.
It is still my favorite lockback and second only to my Gunting as a tactical folder.
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,964
I got a Chinook about a month ago and my first impressions weren't so good either. It seemed to be needlessly over-built; too wide, thick and heavy. I thought, "Wow, this knife looks pretty neat! But I'm sure I'll never actually carry or use it."
Plus, the blade was also rubbing against the liner. That really freaked me out because I thought I might have to immediately send the knife in for repairs. It wasn't clear where the contact was taking place, but there was an audible grating sound.
Within just a couple of days though, my opinion of the knife improved markedly. The grating went away quickly. After slightly tightening the pivot screw and "breaking it in", the opening action became extremely smooth.
It might take some people a little longer to get used to the weight, especially if they're used to Zytel handles or something. When you spend time manipulating the Chinook though, the weight sort of disappears. The knife is so ergonomic and well balanced that it handles like a lighter knife. Eventually, you can appreciate its heft without feeling weighed down by it.
Regarding the blade shape; it does seem to be more usefull for daily chores than you might at first think. However, one problem is when you have to make a box-cutting type of cut. For instance: If the top two flaps of a box are taped closed, you make a shallow insertion of the point and then drag the edge toward you through the tape. The Chinook can't make that kind of cut very well because the point is so high and there is so much belly directly under it. However, if the swedge was sharp or just very thin, you could simply flip the knife over and make this kind of cut with the swedge.
Keep in mind though that the knife was originally designed for martial purposes, and that's were the blade shape really excels. Despite its appearance, the blade can straight thrust though thick material easily. Plus, the blade is vorpal when you slash with it; the point doesn't drag, so it just passes through material like magic.
After having the Chinook for awhile, the only gripes I have about it are minor things and they may even already be scheduled to be changed in the next run. If I'm allowed to be a critic for a moment, my small gripes are: right angle near tang exposed, dentations on blade for thumb too sharp, Military clip too large, swedge near point too wide.
Basically though, I think the Chinook is a great knife and it's one of my favorite Clipits right now. It might not evolve into a classic design like the Military, but you never know. The potential does seem to be there.
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Cerulean
"We cut things to create things" - J.K.M.
Plus, the blade was also rubbing against the liner. That really freaked me out because I thought I might have to immediately send the knife in for repairs. It wasn't clear where the contact was taking place, but there was an audible grating sound.
Within just a couple of days though, my opinion of the knife improved markedly. The grating went away quickly. After slightly tightening the pivot screw and "breaking it in", the opening action became extremely smooth.
It might take some people a little longer to get used to the weight, especially if they're used to Zytel handles or something. When you spend time manipulating the Chinook though, the weight sort of disappears. The knife is so ergonomic and well balanced that it handles like a lighter knife. Eventually, you can appreciate its heft without feeling weighed down by it.
Regarding the blade shape; it does seem to be more usefull for daily chores than you might at first think. However, one problem is when you have to make a box-cutting type of cut. For instance: If the top two flaps of a box are taped closed, you make a shallow insertion of the point and then drag the edge toward you through the tape. The Chinook can't make that kind of cut very well because the point is so high and there is so much belly directly under it. However, if the swedge was sharp or just very thin, you could simply flip the knife over and make this kind of cut with the swedge.
Keep in mind though that the knife was originally designed for martial purposes, and that's were the blade shape really excels. Despite its appearance, the blade can straight thrust though thick material easily. Plus, the blade is vorpal when you slash with it; the point doesn't drag, so it just passes through material like magic.
After having the Chinook for awhile, the only gripes I have about it are minor things and they may even already be scheduled to be changed in the next run. If I'm allowed to be a critic for a moment, my small gripes are: right angle near tang exposed, dentations on blade for thumb too sharp, Military clip too large, swedge near point too wide.
Basically though, I think the Chinook is a great knife and it's one of my favorite Clipits right now. It might not evolve into a classic design like the Military, but you never know. The potential does seem to be there.
------------------
Cerulean
"We cut things to create things" - J.K.M.
Steve,
I agree with you on this point. I'm sure though that this was a consession made because covering it would change the handles' ergonomics.
cerulean,
Good thoughts. My impressions are good and bad with the nod to GOOD! The knife is already growing on me. The weight issue to me is a positive and as stated, I really LIKE the full liners and solid back spacers on this knife. I also feel the knife's weight is offset by it's compact size. I disagree with you on the blade's thumb notches. I like them slightly grabbier as on this knife. I compare them to the Sebenza's thumb stud. Some folks are turned off by it's sharp feel but it WORKS. I don't think this will become a Spyderco "classic" as the Military has. The Military's great flat ground blade is just so all-around useful and will even work well in a defensive pinch. I think the Chinook is a "keeper" though, and as more folks discover it, it should prove very popular. If you like Spydercos, as I do, it's a definite "must have".
I agree with you on this point. I'm sure though that this was a consession made because covering it would change the handles' ergonomics.
cerulean,
Good thoughts. My impressions are good and bad with the nod to GOOD! The knife is already growing on me. The weight issue to me is a positive and as stated, I really LIKE the full liners and solid back spacers on this knife. I also feel the knife's weight is offset by it's compact size. I disagree with you on the blade's thumb notches. I like them slightly grabbier as on this knife. I compare them to the Sebenza's thumb stud. Some folks are turned off by it's sharp feel but it WORKS. I don't think this will become a Spyderco "classic" as the Military has. The Military's great flat ground blade is just so all-around useful and will even work well in a defensive pinch. I think the Chinook is a "keeper" though, and as more folks discover it, it should prove very popular. If you like Spydercos, as I do, it's a definite "must have".
I dont get it Gene? The first part of your post extols the quality of the Chinook, then you say its rough and not up to spyderco's usual standard.
I have Chinook #347, I too wondered about the "rubbing" that never seems to make any marks.
I found that if you open with the other hand, it seems to rub on the opposite side. My blade has so little room between it and the liners, I doubt a sheet of typing paper could fit in between. My guess is on opening it, I put enough torque on the blade to ever so slightly touch a liner. But in no way does it cause a problem. I have never seen a blade so centered and yet have so little space between it and either liner. That alone shows their tight tolerances in manufacturing.
The grinds were perfect, its razor sharp and the black g-10 smooth on the corners. Yes it does seem to be close to a fixed blade folder.
Ugly, not by my standards. Its a thing of beauty. Kind of like a shark is beautiful.
Its one heck of strong knife and blade on an ergonomic handle that one can get a good grip on. I have the utmost confidence in the lock. More than any liner lock I own. I think the clip is perfectly sized and the large Military sized spyder hole is great.
In short it wants for nothing. If spyderco built only a knife for everyone, we would just have the endura.
The Chinook along with the Civilian and REKAT Sifu are 3 folders so unique in design, so dedicated to purpose and built so faithful to that purpose, that I knew I had to have them the moment I saw them. -mike
I have Chinook #347, I too wondered about the "rubbing" that never seems to make any marks.
I found that if you open with the other hand, it seems to rub on the opposite side. My blade has so little room between it and the liners, I doubt a sheet of typing paper could fit in between. My guess is on opening it, I put enough torque on the blade to ever so slightly touch a liner. But in no way does it cause a problem. I have never seen a blade so centered and yet have so little space between it and either liner. That alone shows their tight tolerances in manufacturing.
The grinds were perfect, its razor sharp and the black g-10 smooth on the corners. Yes it does seem to be close to a fixed blade folder.
Ugly, not by my standards. Its a thing of beauty. Kind of like a shark is beautiful.
Its one heck of strong knife and blade on an ergonomic handle that one can get a good grip on. I have the utmost confidence in the lock. More than any liner lock I own. I think the clip is perfectly sized and the large Military sized spyder hole is great.
In short it wants for nothing. If spyderco built only a knife for everyone, we would just have the endura.
The Chinook along with the Civilian and REKAT Sifu are 3 folders so unique in design, so dedicated to purpose and built so faithful to that purpose, that I knew I had to have them the moment I saw them. -mike
I also have some liner rub, but my issue is with the lock. The Chinook is one of the first realeases in Spydercos new MBC (martial blade craft) line, marketed as a defensive tool. I have to admit, I'm not trained in knife fighting, and never really care to be. I like knives as tools designed for function and versatility. The Chinook fits that catagory. With its deep belly it makes a great slicer. It has enough heft to do some light choping, though I try to avoid such use in folders. The wicked point calls for persicion work.
The Chinook is a large knife with pretty good heft. Still, I find it fits medium to large hands wonderfully, and even a fair amount of smaller womans hands. It has good balance and blade geometery, and is a fine preformer.
Despite my praises, I have found some things I would call falts with the Chinook. The point is a bit delicate, and might not sustain real abuse, but its not designed to be abused in prying type work, so I won't take issue. I am a bit dissapointed with the knifes lack of versatility however. Mine has a single clip mount, for tip down, right hand carry. Personally, i like tip up. Not a big issue, but its how i personnaly feel comfortable. I would like to see an optional mount position. I also feel for my left handed firends. While the knife itself is as ambidextorese as they come, the clip is locked on the right hand side. Either a left handed version or an optional mount position would be wonderful. Fortunatly, Spyderco has claimed to be considering a four position mounting scheme fin an updated version, but only time will tell.
In addition, there is only one adjustment point on the whole knife, and that is the blade pivot. I would like to see the pressure fit pins replaced with liner screws to facilitate adjustment, cleaning and repair, need be. Overall, not a preformance issue, but the makings for a more user friendly package.
I'm also a bit concerned with the lock design. Although it is exceedingly stong, I am worried about the lock type choice itself. It has solid lock up with no blade play, and is rock solid when my hand rides high on the grip. However, when my hand slides down on the grip, the preassure from my hand can force the lock open, possibly resulting in accidental closing. With a blade as heavy and shapr as the Chinook, i see that as a real concern for those using it in either hard working conditions, or, in the worse case scenarion, in a defensive situation.
While being of good size, with great materials, I am not convinced this knife would be a good choice for those with smaller hands that may be holding the knife over the lock, or those who would submit it to harsh and depaning use, again due to lock issues. A great look and overall feel, but i would stongly suggest the lock either be redesigned or replaced with a more abuse friendly design.
The Chinook is a large knife with pretty good heft. Still, I find it fits medium to large hands wonderfully, and even a fair amount of smaller womans hands. It has good balance and blade geometery, and is a fine preformer.
Despite my praises, I have found some things I would call falts with the Chinook. The point is a bit delicate, and might not sustain real abuse, but its not designed to be abused in prying type work, so I won't take issue. I am a bit dissapointed with the knifes lack of versatility however. Mine has a single clip mount, for tip down, right hand carry. Personally, i like tip up. Not a big issue, but its how i personnaly feel comfortable. I would like to see an optional mount position. I also feel for my left handed firends. While the knife itself is as ambidextorese as they come, the clip is locked on the right hand side. Either a left handed version or an optional mount position would be wonderful. Fortunatly, Spyderco has claimed to be considering a four position mounting scheme fin an updated version, but only time will tell.
In addition, there is only one adjustment point on the whole knife, and that is the blade pivot. I would like to see the pressure fit pins replaced with liner screws to facilitate adjustment, cleaning and repair, need be. Overall, not a preformance issue, but the makings for a more user friendly package.
I'm also a bit concerned with the lock design. Although it is exceedingly stong, I am worried about the lock type choice itself. It has solid lock up with no blade play, and is rock solid when my hand rides high on the grip. However, when my hand slides down on the grip, the preassure from my hand can force the lock open, possibly resulting in accidental closing. With a blade as heavy and shapr as the Chinook, i see that as a real concern for those using it in either hard working conditions, or, in the worse case scenarion, in a defensive situation.
While being of good size, with great materials, I am not convinced this knife would be a good choice for those with smaller hands that may be holding the knife over the lock, or those who would submit it to harsh and depaning use, again due to lock issues. A great look and overall feel, but i would stongly suggest the lock either be redesigned or replaced with a more abuse friendly design.
Mike,
Sorry to confuse you, but in the first part of my post, I was extolling the Chinooks MERITS. My quality concerns are MAINLY with the knife's "innards". Yes, I stated my concerns are "SOMEWHAT" with overall quality but that is MY opinion from owning many, many Spyders since their inception. I DID mention that the knife works admirably well though and DESPITE my opinions, is a great knife. I am sure these issues will be delt with in future Chinook offerings. If you read my post CAREFULLY, you will find that I concur with your opinions and think this is a great piece. I don't know who called it ugly, but if it is, (NOT my opinion), it is BEAUTIFUL in it's ultilatarianess!
Sorry to confuse you, but in the first part of my post, I was extolling the Chinooks MERITS. My quality concerns are MAINLY with the knife's "innards". Yes, I stated my concerns are "SOMEWHAT" with overall quality but that is MY opinion from owning many, many Spyders since their inception. I DID mention that the knife works admirably well though and DESPITE my opinions, is a great knife. I am sure these issues will be delt with in future Chinook offerings. If you read my post CAREFULLY, you will find that I concur with your opinions and think this is a great piece. I don't know who called it ugly, but if it is, (NOT my opinion), it is BEAUTIFUL in it's ultilatarianess!
I cant understand any criticism of the chinook's lock. I can squeeze as hard as I can and not disengage the lock. White knuckling seems to have no effect on this lock. Its much harder to disengage than any liner lock or lock back I have encountered on any other knife.
It has to be depressed a substansial amount to actually disengage the lock. I cant see the flesh of your hand or a glove doing that in real life. I will say this, if this knife is not good enough for you in the lock department, consider a fixed blade only for your uses.
It has to be depressed a substansial amount to actually disengage the lock. I cant see the flesh of your hand or a glove doing that in real life. I will say this, if this knife is not good enough for you in the lock department, consider a fixed blade only for your uses.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2000
- Messages
- 41
I can understand the concern regarding the lock, but have you actually tried to disengage the lock without using your finger? It appears that this is another case where theory will be demonstrated to be a little thin.
I have attempted to squeeze the handle to disengage the lock along the spine with the fleshy part of my hand in a myriad of ways and grips. I do have a very strong grip, and all other lockbacks have failed when I squeeze with appreciable strength. The Chinook has been the only one that has not disengaged the lock without the use of a thumb or finger depressing the lock fully.
Short of actual mechanical failure or intentional pressure by the fingers/thumb, I don't see the lock becoming disengaged. Possible, sure; realistic, no.
I am open to any way you accomplished this task. I would like to know in an effort to avoid using the grip in the future.
Also, I do not consider the lock a replacement for a fixed blade. Or any other lock for that matter. There's that mechanical aspect again.
I have attempted to squeeze the handle to disengage the lock along the spine with the fleshy part of my hand in a myriad of ways and grips. I do have a very strong grip, and all other lockbacks have failed when I squeeze with appreciable strength. The Chinook has been the only one that has not disengaged the lock without the use of a thumb or finger depressing the lock fully.
Short of actual mechanical failure or intentional pressure by the fingers/thumb, I don't see the lock becoming disengaged. Possible, sure; realistic, no.
I am open to any way you accomplished this task. I would like to know in an effort to avoid using the grip in the future.
Also, I do not consider the lock a replacement for a fixed blade. Or any other lock for that matter. There's that mechanical aspect again.
All of my criticisms with the lock are due from full grip. When my hand slides down on the grip so my pinky rests on the bulge on the end, the webing of my hand between first finger and thumb can easily add enough pressure to open the lock with a simple squeeze. I'm not talking white knuckle heroics, just a simple solid working grip. Choked up on the blade its not a problem, but i can easily see my hand moving back on the grip in use, be it casual or, god forbid, martial. One mine first arrived Iwas pleased to see it took some depression to disengage the lock, but now after only a few days of carry, I see that kind of depression is easily attainable in a normal grip. No torture testing. Just picking it up and holding it i can disengage the grip. My hand is about 3.5" across the palm. About average from what i can tell.
At first glance I thought to myself WoW what a big knife.And wasn't to sure about it,but so much for first impressions.This is one design Spyderco and James Keating can be very proud of.It's weight isn't nearly what you would think in such a big folder.And all of the tactical purposes shine brightly through it.It's use as a field knife has been tested on two recently deceased whitetails and my report is extrordinary.It needed a minor touch up after the skinning and it performed beautifully.What a hunting knife.Although I would have liked to have seen the point dropped down a 1/4 inch for more of a thrust but it would still do the job and utility chores are no problem.Do to my large hands I like the"bulk"even though it's not really bulky even in your pocket,although I think this one calls for a good skunkworks holster just because.And to sum it up the only one I like better is my Gunting and my trainer,but I would never skin with my Gunting.A damn good knife,well worth the money.Mine has no grind against the liner at all
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Someday my friends ,I'll own them all
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Someday my friends ,I'll own them all
The lock can be defeated with your fingers if held in the reverse grip with edge facing body. Try it, not too difficult. But personally, I would not hold this folder in such a grip. So the point may be a non issue for some.
Another matter. Hold the Chinook in a sabre grip with blade locked open. Instead of resting the thumb on the grooved section of the spine bring it back a bit so that it rests on the end part of the locking bar. Exert and maintain pressure while the other hand grasps the blade. Now rock it hard in a back and forth motion. Feel it?
L8r,
Nakano
PS- still looking to trade my NIB serial numbered part serrated for a NIB plain edge one.
Another matter. Hold the Chinook in a sabre grip with blade locked open. Instead of resting the thumb on the grooved section of the spine bring it back a bit so that it rests on the end part of the locking bar. Exert and maintain pressure while the other hand grasps the blade. Now rock it hard in a back and forth motion. Feel it?
L8r,
Nakano
PS- still looking to trade my NIB serial numbered part serrated for a NIB plain edge one.
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,964
Hmm... I think I know what you're talking about, Afee. Do you mean that when you squeeze the handle, the end of the rocker bar raises slightly? That seems to happen to some degree with a lot of lock backs, but I agree that it's more pronounced on the Chinook. I think that's probably because the lock pivot pin is so far forward from the lock release channel, but handle design could have something to do with it too.
Have you actually gotten the lock to disengage though, or is it just a concern? It seems like you have to raise the rocker bar pretty high off the tang to disengage the lock on this model. I think that would compensate for the small amount of accidental bar raising and insure that the lock-up remains solid. Personally, I can't seem to get the lock to disengage unless I use a finger to firmly depress the bar in the lock release channel.
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Cerulean
"We cut things to create things" - J.K.M.
P.S. Edit- Sorry, I didn't see Nakano's post. I think he's talking about the same phenomenon though.
[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 12-20-2000).]
Have you actually gotten the lock to disengage though, or is it just a concern? It seems like you have to raise the rocker bar pretty high off the tang to disengage the lock on this model. I think that would compensate for the small amount of accidental bar raising and insure that the lock-up remains solid. Personally, I can't seem to get the lock to disengage unless I use a finger to firmly depress the bar in the lock release channel.
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Cerulean
"We cut things to create things" - J.K.M.
P.S. Edit- Sorry, I didn't see Nakano's post. I think he's talking about the same phenomenon though.
[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 12-20-2000).]
Consitantly and easily. To make that clear: my Chinook can easily and frequently opens with light pressure from only the grip hand, resulting in unlocking. NOT theory, but consistant (make that-always) opens when I shift my hand down on the grip. I'm calling Mike today to see if I got a crapper or if its just a bum fit for me. I'm actually suprised other people aren't experiencing the same thing. Maybe my back spring is shot? More to report after i call Mike.
Nanko..
I find the Chinook best suited for Reverse Grip use..
When training combatives on the Wooden Dummy, i fing the reverse grip solid and the upswept blade extremly effective for trapping and limb control techniques..
I have tried my hardest, varied white knuckled grips, full strikes and using the meaty part of my hand palm from every angle and the lock has not come near to failure.. Its rock solid..
To disengage the lock it takes a concentrated effort and extreme downward pressure near the rear of the lock with my thumb..
The Chinook is an incredible knife..
The Pocket Bowie serves great for utility and awesome for defensive purposes..
Take Care..
[This message has been edited by ProEdge (edited 12-24-2000).]
[This message has been edited by ProEdge (edited 12-24-2000).]
I find the Chinook best suited for Reverse Grip use..
When training combatives on the Wooden Dummy, i fing the reverse grip solid and the upswept blade extremly effective for trapping and limb control techniques..
I have tried my hardest, varied white knuckled grips, full strikes and using the meaty part of my hand palm from every angle and the lock has not come near to failure.. Its rock solid..
To disengage the lock it takes a concentrated effort and extreme downward pressure near the rear of the lock with my thumb..
The Chinook is an incredible knife..
The Pocket Bowie serves great for utility and awesome for defensive purposes..
Take Care..
[This message has been edited by ProEdge (edited 12-24-2000).]
[This message has been edited by ProEdge (edited 12-24-2000).]
What some may call the "conventional" reverse grip; where the blades edge is facing AWAY from the body is fine by me. The lock won' t deactivate in such a manner. Additionally, the up swept blade shape is indeed excellent for hooking/ trapping techniques. It is only where the Chinooks blade edge is held faces TOWARDS the body in the reverse, as mentioned in my above, will some unlocking effect occur resulting from finger pressure. Try it and you will see that this to be true.
L8r,
Nakano
PS- Murray, any further on that Chinook?
L8r,
Nakano
PS- Murray, any further on that Chinook?
Merry Christmas, and I just wanted to say I ordered the Chinook and I cant wait to get it hopefully in a week or two. From what I've read it seems to be a tank of a knife, (just what I want). It'll be used mostly for deer hunting and cleaning game so the blade shape looks like it should fit the bill. Anyway have a Merry Christmas, and I'll be back to share my thoughts on the knife once I receive it.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2000
- Messages
- 41
Sorry to hear about the actual lock failures. From what has been described, I would have to say that there is a problem with the knives. While my lever does depress slightly, it does not cause the blade to become disengaged from the lock, and I'm sure that is not the intention. Could also be due to the fact that my finger is too large to depress the lever very far into the handle without using the tip specifically; however, regardless of grip, I cannot cause mine, or my brother's Chinook to disengage without fingertip application to the lever at the depression.
I have used the reverse grip numerous times in training with the blade with hard contact...still locked. I squeezed the handle hard enough (with the ring finger directly pushing down on the lever) for the handles to move toward each other several millimeters. It also caused the lever to depress, but no disengagement of the blade. I also did it with the middle finger over the lever...same effect.
You may be correct in your assessment of a bad back spring. It also could be some tolerance and/or machining anomaly with your particular knife(s). It certainly shouldn't happen, and I hope you are able to find an appropriate solution.
I have used the reverse grip numerous times in training with the blade with hard contact...still locked. I squeezed the handle hard enough (with the ring finger directly pushing down on the lever) for the handles to move toward each other several millimeters. It also caused the lever to depress, but no disengagement of the blade. I also did it with the middle finger over the lever...same effect.
You may be correct in your assessment of a bad back spring. It also could be some tolerance and/or machining anomaly with your particular knife(s). It certainly shouldn't happen, and I hope you are able to find an appropriate solution.