Choosing a career, would like advice from any tool and die/machinists or anyone else

Matt Shade

Matt Shade

Joined
Nov 24, 1999
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4,981
Well I'm about to start my senior year in high school and I need to make some important decisions.Its time to decide if I want to go to college or a trade school and what direction I want to go in. In terms of the actual work, I'd like to have a farm. But that doesn't work out to well without land,equipment , or money to get it going.
My gradpa was in tool and die and that seems like a pretty good way to go still.I think I would like the work, provided I'm not just putting in the materials and taking out the part while a computer runs everything.For any of you in tool and die or machinist type fields, what type of work are you expected to do starting out? Do you know what most people are getting for entry level pay now? Is there much chance of promotion to higher paying/better positions over time? And finally, what kind of training would be required or recommended for a job in this field ?

My problem here is that theres a whole lot of things I'd be interested in. I've got some experience in mechanics, carpentry(everything from framing to finish work), electrical work, etc. I like them all. I also know that I want to keep on with all the stuff I do with horses and to eventually have a place out in the country with my own barn and everything. Once I get that established I can make the horses pretty low cost, but the barn, land and house, take money right from the beginning. I don't care about making a ton of money, but I need to make enough for that stuff or at least have a chance of reaching that level over time.It seems like there are alot of construction jobs and things of that type in this area but they don't offer to many chances to advance.I don't know if its because its easier to replace people every two years or what.

I'd like to hear about other fields also. OSU offers lots of different degrees in engineering and some of them sound interesting.

I would really appreciate any advice or ideas you guys can give.
 
Get your college degree first!!!! Then if you want to learn a trade and things do not work you will always have your education to fall back on.
 
Matt, go for the four year degree even it's in basket weaving!:D I never did it myself and in many ways I'm sorry I didn't do it when it was there to do. People always say that they could back to school but few actually do.

Business or engineering would be good to get into. You could get a whole new perpective on things by pursuing those two fields. ANd don't forget art. Bite your lip and wade through the BS of academia and you'll be glad you did even if you have to ask if they want fries with that afterwards.:)
 
Matt,
with all your interests sounds like you'd make a good farmer.:D

if I were you I'd look into the engineering degrees, esp. mecanical types. I know they are hard, but if you want to do one of a kind, and not the mass production stuff. the mechanical engineer is the one who designs and sets the specifications. Its always nice to be in charge. besides, the pay is better and you will be needing some impiments and a new tractor.
 
Matt,

What ever you do, make sure it is a career in something you want to do, Lifes to short to have to get up every day and go to a job that SUCKS, money is great if you can get it but don't go after a career just for the money. I've been in construction for over 30 yrs and jobs in the area I live in gave no benefits at all, if it weren't for saving early I'd be screwed, my father always said use your head and save your ass, sure wish I would have listened. If I could do it all again ,I'd look into a state or federal job and then get the education you need to get the job you want. Theres a lot of good jobs out there. You sound like you really like the outdoors, what about a job in conservation or forestry.

What ever you decide, I wish you the Best. ;)

Bill
 
It has to have benefits. One accident or illness without medical insurance and you will work half your life to pay the bill. City, County, State or Government are always good jobs. Actually Im going back to part time making knives so I can work for the State of Washington. Knifmaking full-time is a tough way to get ahead. It sure is fun though.
 
Hi Matt,

All these guys are dead on the money. Go to college while you are young, it is a major pain to do it later. Engineering is always a good degree to have. Make sure whatever you get a degree in is something that will actually get you a job afterwards or an education is just soul killing debt. Government jobs are fantastic for benefits and retirement. Having a job you hate is a soul killer as well. I have been there and back and I know what I am talking about. I dropped out of school when I turned 17 and joined the army, always wanted to be a soldier and I loved doing it a lot. I did it for 8 years then had to retire from the army on disability after the gulf war. Went to work for the VA hospital for about 5 years while I went to college at night. trying to make up school when you are older SUCKS, but I stuck it out for a long time. My health caused me to have to retire from the VA and when I retired the govt killed my student loans because they say I am permanently disabled and I will never work again. I was 12 credit hours from getting my degree, almost finished. I just turned 34 last month. You just never know how life is going to turn out for you in the end, better to hedge your bets early. Course if you have the equipment and the ability go for being a porn star and forget the rest of this mess, that would be #1 on my list (grin). Sorry for being long winded.

Chuck
 
Hi Matt,
The most important thing by far is to choose something the YOU want to do and be happy doing it. Having said that, I will add that about 16 years ago I was in almost the exact same situation as you are now. I didn't really want to go to college nor did I have the grades and prerequisite classes that I needed, but I had such varied interests (with regards to tinkering with all manner of “stuff”) that I couldn’t find a vocational career that I didn’t think I would get bored with eventually. I was lucky enough to have a mechanics teacher in high school who convinced me to look into the engineering field.

It was tough and in the beginning I had to spend good money to college instructors to teach me things that I should have learned in high school (purely my own fault)…but I earned my degree in Mechanical Engineering. The ME degree is probably one of the most broad in the engineering field and would give you a foundation to do a lot of things such as facility maintenance manager, manufacturing engineering, tool and die work, metal forming, heat treat, HVAC, hydraulics, knife making :)…and the list goes on and on. Of course I wouldn’t discourage you from any of the other engineering disciplines either. There is currently a big demand for environmental, civil, electrical, and computer engineers as well as others.

The great thing about being a mechanical is the options it offers. I chose the go into manufacturing but I have ME friends who did other things. One owns his own machine shop, one is a police officer, one is a general contractor, and one went back to medical school. He is now working to develop structural orthopedic implants and surgical tools. The point is that it opens a lot of doors.

In my case, the ME degree has given me the opportunity to do a lot of the things you mentioned and was the perfect fit for me. You might want to consider it as well it but keep your mind open for other interests too.

If you have any questions or if I can help feel free to drop me an email. And remember…make your decision based on what YOU want to do but choose wisely and get all the education you can while you have a chance. A good technical foundation now makes it easier to learn more as you get older and gain experience...and even though it's not all about the money, that college degree will pay for itself many, many times over.


Take care and good luck,
Cecil
 
Matt,

You're getting a lot of great advice. And I think you are starting from an unusually mature place; you're asking questions and listening to answers. For most of us, it took many more years than its taken you, to learn we don't know all there is to know. But learning that we don't know is a wonderful thing, for that's when we really begin to learn.

Your well thought out question holds a lot of clues to its own answer. You ask more than once about opportunities to advance, and that says a lot about where you want to go, and how you might feel if ten years down the road you see somewhere you want to be but can't seem to get there.

Returning to opportunities, you need to know this, they don't just happen or come along. Its up to you to make them happen. Now, can you make those oppoptunities happen without college? Of course you can. But, you will have many, many more tools to make those opportunities happen if you get a college degree. Indeed, investing your time in college is one good way to start making those opportunities happen.

By all means, keep finding time to make things -- nurture your interests in woodwork, metalwork and construction along the way. My high school counselor didn't want me to take shop (since I should go to college). I did anyway and I can't tell you how many times I and my family have laughed at that over the years, because I've found both pleasure and real world benefits from building and making things.

But I also went to college, got a degree in chemistry, and then onto law school at night and got a law degree. I am now a patent lawyer and get to learn about all kinds of new and old technologies. But in high school, I didn't even know there was any such thing as patent law (and I absolutely never expected to be a lawyer). So don't worry that you don't know yet where you want to go -- walk down that road of getting some tools for just a little bit, and you'll find all kinds of paths and places that you didn't even know existed.

One last thing, I've worked with a lot of engineers over the years. They've been my clients as inventors, technical decision makers, and top decision makers at a lot of companies, big and small. I agree with the post of Cecil at Arrow-Dynamics. Engineering seems to give people a lot of good tools to do a lot of different things, and it also seems to give the mind set of making things (like opportunities) happen.

Good luck.

PlasmaPhase
 
Hi Matt. Well, since nobody else has mentioned it, guess I will. If, as the end of your senior year looms and you're not much further down the road in terms of deciding what it is you want to do with your life, or perhaps you've obtained a strong interest in a technological field, you could consider the military.

I haven't paid any attention to military recruiting ads for a long time. So, I don't know what they're offering in terms of guaranteed training, and matching money for college after the service. I do know that the military is on the cutting edge of many technologies. If you have the qualifications and ability, you can get yourself an education and experience in a relatively brief time that is impossible to match in the everyday world, or the world of academics.

Then again, a war could occur and you could get your ass shot off. But, some people make a satisfying career of the military too, and hit the ground running in their late 30s with a decent retirement pension, great job skills, and they're still young enough to grow substantially in the area of their work.

If you have any electives to play with this senior year, use them to try things that you've not done so far. You might find you really like something a lot. Or hate it, but that lets you cross stuff off your list.

Above all, be patient. If you have the grades and the funds to attend college, then that is probably the best route to follow. But, I've seen a lot of people attend a 4-yr school, and get a BA, and still have not the foggiest notion of what they want to do with their lives. If you can, during the school year, or summers, try to get a variety of jobs in fields that interest you. Give yourself the widest exposure possible.

I don't know how many such tests are offered, but there are aptitude tests available, that could provide you with some good ideas about where your interests really lie. It isn't always so easy to know just thinking about it yourself.

Good luck, Matt. Be thoughtful, but don't forget to have a good time!
 
Matt..you're in the excact same situation as I was 4 years ago. I remember quit well because it caused some hellaising at home :D

Anyway... getting a degree is something you should alway think of first. Consider it like a stairway..the only ay up is by studying. Down is easy. But if you have no degree, and start farming, you can defenitely forget getting up ever, should the farming business not be in your nature in a couple of years.

I was an excellent toolmaker, because that was my dad's job. Now he's a computer technician, and most of the machine park is gone, but that is something i will always have...because I learned it. I now make knives... but i realize quit well that making a living from making knives is far from easy. Sooo..since I am quit good at studying, I started a university masters degree in psychology. It's getting quit boring now, but with that, I will be able to make a lot of money and have an easy life. I'm also thinking of doing computersciences, and who knows, if I fail this year, i just might.

The clue is to aim high, and keep in mind what to do with your future.
Most people in their thirties don't know if they chose right sooo..

Study and get an as high degree as you possibly can, it will pay back over the years, I promis. Even if it costs blood sweat and tears...imagine how much i would like to do something else... I study basically the week, and can only work in the weekends on knives, IF I can't have something else to finish or other things to do. I make about 3-5 knives a year..i wanna make at least 30....practice my skills... But the degree must come first, at all costs.

greetz and take care.

Bart.
 
I really appreciate you guys all taking the time to reply. You've all brought up good points and made me think about things from some different angles.I'm already getting things together to send in an application to OSU.It looks like the most likely way for me to go rihgt now and I'll make sure it stays an option while I check into some other things. I've flipped through their catalog of engineering classes some and some of the stuff doesn't sound too bad. I have all my pre requisite classes and have just over a 3 point GPA right now.
My interest in school really dropped over the last year though, and thats a big part of why I'm not sure if I want to go for another 4 years. I still do the best I can but its hard to stay motivated.This sudden push for a "well rounded education" is annoying. Its rated on the 5 sections ( writing, reading,science, math and citizenship) of 9th and 12th grade proficiency tests.Because of that, my school has no shop class, and no agricultural programs. It does offer about 30 different courses in english though, along with teen parenting, how to cook foreign foods, and weightlifting.And some of the teachers go off the deep end with trying to "prepare you for the REAL world", where they "won't be holding your hand and telling you what to do all the time".I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything, but I do manage my own business training horses for various clients,and work another job baling hay and straw and delivering it to a race track for a farm.So I probably work as many if not more hours than they do, I pay taxes, manage my time and money, and I can even get dressed all by myself ;). The constant preaching gets old.
I can't argue about their being more opportunities for me with college, but I want to get more information on what I can actually get out of the different degrees available. The mechanical engineering definitely sounds like it would leave alot of things to choose from, and for the most part they seem like good jobs. Civil engineering seems to fit my interests too and that would offer jobs in city, county, or state positions that should offer good benefits and pay.
I think I'm a lot closer to making some decisions now. You guys have been a big help. There's alot more I want to check out though.
Thanks again for all the good information.
 
Wow, who let all the dad's in here? :p Just kidding, you've gotten some very good advice thus far.

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, but at this time don't use it. My obsession with how the body works took over, and it's because of that that I work as a personal trainer.

The ME degree cannot hurt you. It's a tough degree to get, but it's very open ended and can easily lead into many other fields.

To me, the biggest thing is to live your life as the person you want to be...and obviously that's a forward striving individual...so I'm confident you will find success.

But then again, that porn star option is always a good one! :D

Nick
 
:
Matt you've been given advice that is invaluable and you seem to know that.
I can speak from 1st hand experience about the machine shop as I chose to do that when I was about 17 and married with a son.
I was 54 years old when I got hurt on the job and knowing that I couldn't work at my chosen trade again I went for my GED.
I was told that if I could get a score of 60 points or better that I would qualify for a 2 year scholarship at out local Jr.College and I did that. I scored 68.2 or thereabouts, have to look it up to be positive, and got my scholarship.
I didn't take it because the company I worked for put me in the tool room as a tool grinder along with other duties I could
perform.
I couldn't work and go back to school because of the pain I was in, difficult to work 8 hours a day let alone anything else.
Then I reinjured my back and that was it for me.
I retired medically when I was 55 years and was fortunate enough to have a fair nest egg in the 401K so I'm doing okay.

I was really pissed off when I finished my GED because the realization came that I could have been almost anything I wanted even with a very successful career as a machinist.
My field was in Automatic Screw Machines where you didn't have to put and take parts, I hated that since I liked to move around and the ASMs let me do that, and over the years I became an Automatic Screw Machine mechanic which was right up my alley as that way I could take a screw machine all apart, repair it and put it back together, much more rewarding than just setting them up.:)
I had a lot of experience on several different makes and styles of ASMs as well and repaired and rebuilt all of them when they needed it.

The one thing I would urge you to do if you choose a career in engineering is to spend at least a couple of years in a machine
shop.
That experience will teach you a great deal about the engineering field as there's a lot of engineers who don't know what an engine lathe or milling machine is and consequently have to redesign parts so they will be abled to be machined in the correct way or even fit in a machine so it can be machined.
One young engineer that was just starting out had the benefit of being trained by an old machinist that was one of the best engineers I ever knew in spite of not having a degree.
And by the time the young man had to quit and go back to school full time he knew more than some advanced engineers with years in the field.

Get the education first no matter what. You won't ever be sorry.
I wish I had of and I wanted to be a mechanical engineer as well when I was in your year of high school, I just made some bad choices and had to live with the results of my actions.:)
 
Ok matt, your situation sounds very familar. I currently work as a machinist, a tool maker. First I went to college, and I have a BS in aquaculture. There was an article in our local paper about a company that sends it's employees back to school to become machinists. My parents though this was a good idea because I have always been good with my hands. When they hired me I started out making more money than most of the guys in the shop just because I have a little piece of paper that says I have a degree. They also paid for me to go to the local trade school to hone my skills. There is room for advancement, and pay raises are often if you are a good worker.
I am 25, I have been making knives part time for 4 years, and now have access to all the CNC, and machines that I could ask for. Go to college, and then go to trade school. Just having that piece of paper can make a hugh difference.

Plus think of all the parting you can do while in college, trade school kids don't party, most of the time they are part of the bad croud. When I was in trade school the kids swore an yelled at the teachers, didn't work and made the working environment for the rest of us horrible.
 
Thanks guys
So far it looks like I'll start out in engineering undecided and go from there. School starts tommorow, so I should have the application for OSU ready to go pretty soon.

Striper
good points on the trade school. Thats a big part of why I haven't even considered the vocational school that works in conjunction with my high shool. The teachers and guidance counselors line up all the people who don't put any effort into anything but causing other people trouble, and send them to the vocational school.I figured chances of getting a good education there were pretty poor. They send everyone there on a mandatory visit to see all the classes right before freshman year, and I could tell then that no one there knew what the hell was going on.
I'm not into partying though.I guess I'm a loser :) I'd rather stay home and work on a knife or ride my horses than go out partying.

Thanks again to everyone. You've been a big help.
 
Lots of good advice. Military is a good option, as are all the others mentioned. Now my .02...coming from someone who drank a full ride scholarship :( ...Don't party, and don't get married. Neither will increase your chances of graduating unless of course you marry someone who is independantly wealthy that you met at a party. :D
Best of luck.
Sattley
 
Matt, as a college drop out I can tell you, get the 4 year degree as early as possible. It doesn't matter what it is in, just get it. Our society values looking good on paper more than actual competence. It sucks, but it is true. If you have both "you'll be runnin sh%&!"
Oh, and take the SAT as many times as possible. You will have to pay each time, but your score should get better each time. Don't guess answers, leave them blank. You score is for questions attempted. It will give more weight to your right answers, and decrease the number of wrong answers.
My dad was in college admissions for 30 years I know of which I speak. He has a masters degree in history, and it had absolutley nothing to do with his job. Military can only help. Go ROTC but choose an MOS with a real world counter part, like flying. I got a friend who pulls down $300,000 a year as a comercial pilot, but only works 6 months out of the year. There is a serious pilot shortage right now. Military connections can help you find jobs, and get promotions too. A fellow Marine got my dad his job.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
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