Choosing a firearm for my Urban Survival Kit

O

oldsalt

Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
42
I know that this subject has been covered before here but I was re-assessing my reasoning this weekend while repacking my UPSK on the firearm I carry in it and thought I would post it here for comment. My UPSK is a Camelback H.A.W.G. and its main purpose is to get me home from work in the event of a SHITF scenario where I can't drive and have to use mass transit or walk. I live about 1 hard days walk from home. Along with all the other stuff I carry a S&W Mod. 642 airweight. This is SS, hammerless, .38 cal., 5 shot, 2.5 inch revolver. Now I know that a lot of you are going to say that it too low a caliber to be an effective self defense weapon but I believe, for me, it has a number of advantages that out weigh the lower stopping power.
1) First to address the question of stopping power, I am firing the Federal 110 grain JHP Hydro-shock round which provided adequate stopping power at close to medium ranges. The .38 was used effectively for years in the US and abroad by both civilian police forces and the military. With the modifications I have made (more about that later) and practice I have become fairly proficient with it and can hit a fairly tight group within 50 meters. I practice both right and left hand.
2) The gun is very easy to conceal and lends itself to a number of hiding places on your person. One of my favorite carry places is my left hand trouser pocket or jacket pocket. Many, would be assailants might overlook a nervous hand slipping into your left hand pocket, especially if you distract them with your right.
3) Light weight. Empty this gun weighs less than 16 oz. Loaded and with 50 rounds of ammo carried in a plastic shell box in the H.A.W.G I am right around 32 oz. When trying to travel light and fast, the more weight I can save means I tire out less often.
4) Stainless Steel means I don't have to worry as much about rust. Easy to maintain. I also carry a small, minmal cleaning kit.
5) Being a revolver, it is very reliable. More so, IMHO, than an auto. In fact, with the two inch barrel and hammerless configuration, it is the only gun I know of that can be fired multiple times from inside a jacket pocket without fear of jamming. I figure in a close range attack, or when dealing with multiple assailants, surprise is going to be one of your biggest assets, hence the left hand carry.
6) Since I suffer from a slight case of arthritis I have had this gun modified to lighten its trigger pull and smooth up the action. With a light trigger and the light weight HPs, the kickback of the Federal Hydro-shock rounds is minor, which translates into quicker return to point of aim and less fatigue to my hands.
Well, thats it. I have been carrying this weapon as my main defense gun for some time and I am happy with it. If I venture into high crime areas or travel etc, I will carry a H&K USP Compact .45 cal., but I still like my little .38.
OldSalt.
 
Your .38 should be just fine for defending yourself on the go. The .38special was the standard for police use for about 80 years in this country and while some say it was not up to the job, it put plenty of people in the cemetary. Hey, it worked for Bernard Gotz. And a gun of that type killed John Lennon.

The revolver has a heck of alot going for it, as you have pointed out. In over 40 years of shooting I have never had a revolver malfunction on me.
 
IMHO, a .38 that you are comfortable, familiar, and proficcient with, and is THERE when you need it, is a thousand times better than the baddest Dirty Harry Magnum sitting at home in the vault. I prefer a .357 with a longer barrel (sight plane) myself, but that is just me. Again, I am comfortable, familiar, and proficcient with it, and it is present, though not as light and conceilable as yours. As an aside, I can and do use .38's in my .357 for reduced loads.

Codger
 
Use what works best for you and that you can hit with. My personal is a Glock 26 9mm.
 
GO with the Glock in 9MM...

If you need a revolver with a bit of punch...Ruger Redhawk.

If you want a small revolver you can conceal...Ruger SP101

Shane
 
If you're gonna blast from your coat pocket, be prepared for the potential for a fire.....:cool: :cool:
 
^^^^ Oh god.....

Im an auto fan, and not big on the idea of discharging a weapon inside my pocket but thats a modern well built wheelgun that should do you fine.

What I do suggest is that you dump the hydra shoks. Spotty performance against barriers, and thats a very light round. Speer makes a 125 +P round make specifically for snubbies. Gold Dots have more reliable performance, and this one is designed to retain a good amount of velocity and expansion even from short barrels.

I prefer the Sig 226. Modern 9mm +P rounds perform very well. 9mm is also very available, cheap, low recoil, low weight, flat trajectory and high capacity. It offers a better selection of ammo than any other pistol caliber I can think of. HK makes fine guns, but their guns accessories and mags are very expensive. Something to consider if your on a tight budget(like me)

If you are trying to defend yourself against large 4 legged critters than you want something a lot bigger.

You may want to consider a small carbine too.
 
I like the .38 the wife picked up. I'm not up on handguns, but the little Taurus 5 shot has a compensated barrel and shoots very well, with very little recoil. Especially as compared to my SRP90 .45acp. Unfortunately, the .38 isn't recommended for +P ammo.
 
Thatmguy and Unclejoe357,
Firing from inside a pocket, I agree, can be dangerous, and not something that I would want to do except as a last resort. I have thought through a number of "What if" scenarios. As I said, this is my primary carry for an urban bugout from my place of work to my home. In the event that I cannot use my truck due to damage, gridlock etc I will be on foot or, at best on some form or urban transport, most likely a bus. In either case I will have to pass through some rough neighborhoods, possibly after dark. I don't want to advertise carrying a weapon as that make would be assailants change tactics to compensate. I would perfer them to think I was unarmed till the last minute. This type of scenario lends itself to close quarters combat. I have a bad leg and am not able to flee from young men in their 20s anymore. I carrry a Canemasters street cane and know how to use it. The .38 is a last resort weapon and as such might not be quickly deployed if carried on my belt under a jacket. Carrying in a coat pocket, particularly weak side seems like a way to access it quickly and depending on the situation firing from the pocket is at least an option with this gun.
I don't really anticipate the need to penetrate any barriers with this weapon. If there is a barrier between me and an assailant I would probabaly attempt to retreat rather than shoot through it. I have tried several differet rounds and I like the Hydro-shock for it's light recoil and knock-down power. I will however buy a box of the Speer 125+P and try them out at the range.
Again, givent the scenarios for usage I don't think that I will be encountering any 4 legged animals that I can't fend off with a solid Hickory cane or the .38 hydroshock round.
Oldsalt.
 
cheung_victor said:
do you really need a gun?!
Click to expand...
CV, I full well understand the prevailing world view that a gun is an unneccisary evil, and that all the world's problems could be reduced, if not solved, by removing guns from private individuals. It is not a view to which the majority of Americans subscribe for a variety of reasons. We still enjoy the freedom to own and carry a gun if we so choose, or not to if that is our preference. Being able to defend oneself is a right that we believe to be most basic, and derived from the giver of life Himself. But these are just my opinions, and each is free to have a differing opinion. At least in most places.

Codger
 
A smith or Taurus snubby fits the bill if ya wanna hide it

A smith or Ruger .357 fits the bill if ya gonna carry it on ya belt

A good revolver is hard to beat in a survival pack...I like a nice 4" .357 for this, but any decent 5-6 shot revolver .38spec or bigger that has a decent trigger and ya can hitwith it should be fine...No muss and no fuss about lost mag's or spring set...get a couple speed loaders...Snakeshot ammo (I carry my snakestick so I dont hvae to shoot them and heavy hitters for the larger critters

My carry stuff for outdoor's
In tha gun...6 rounds Corbon or PD rounds 125 grn

1 speedloader...6 rounds snakeshot (would prolly never use it but ya never know) granted when I am in the woods in the summer I am LOOKING for snakes so I doubt that I would shoot them..:D

2 speedloader...158grn Gold Dots for stuff that bites:eek:

Speer's new snubby round is da stuff...I bought some for my GF's snubby Taurus

Stopping power?? hit what ya shoot at and shoot whatever it is 4-5 times in the face...There is your stopping power

An auto?? The small Grocks and the XD-s are what I would carry (XDcompact is my spring and fall CCW) but they are not what I reach for when I go bumping around in the woods...It is hard to beat a good revolver when it comes to wood's bumming...


Firing from the pocket a concern?? Leroy Thompson did an article on this many years ago...Go and have a seamstress sew a layer of thin leather or canvas inside the pocket and that should solve the problem (I know a guy that had me make him a holster that was stitched and riveted inside the pocket, the holster acted as a buffer)

These are all my opinions and mine alone
 
Old salt,

Nothing wrong with your choices. Most of the time, if I'm carrying, it's a .22, but I generally don't carry for self-defense. I like my old, blue S&W snubbie, too. Works fine for me.

Sounds like you answered your own question.

As for the politics, guns are a lot like lawyers. Most people take a dim view of them. That is, until they need one.
 
I think your choice is fine. You've given it a lot of thought and practice, I think you're good to go. I agree with you about wheelguns. I have autos and like them, but when it comes to what your describing, I'll take revolvers every time.
 
I think a lightweight, hammerless .38 snubbie is a great choice for such a kit. It's even better if you are already carrying something more substantial on your person, but I digress. :D

A Kel-Tec .380 would be another good choice for similar reasons. Not good for firing from inside the pocket, but flatter than a revo and still very light.
 
Hey didn't you see War of The Worlds and numerous other Holleywood productions. Seems almost 100% certain that evil will befall anyone prepared for civil disorder and owning a firearm. Perhaps you would be better off practicing a menacing stare and sarcastic comebacks.

The preceding message was a feeble attempt at humour and was not meant to offend liberal film producers or card carrying NRA members.... well maybe offending the liberal artsies would be o.k.
 
As far as an URBAN survival kit, I would go with a Colt .45 Auto, until I saved enough money to move to a more RURAL area!!!! Then I would store the .45 in the closet. Once in a Rural area, you would need an OUTDOOR survival kit. I'm most likely alone one this suggestion, but I would pick (as I have) a Ruger Single Six in .22 Magnum, with a 6.5 bbl. I own quite a few big bore handguns and I think the .22 Mag is underrated for self defense. Aside from Big Bears (and I would want a 12 Gauge pump w/slugs, lots of slugs!!!!!), a survival handgun in my opinion should be all about getting FOOD, as well as keeping things that go bumb in the night away from the glow of the campfire. You can carry far more .22 Mags in your backpack than .38's or .45's, as far as equal weight/bulk is concerned.
You have far more guts than I do, as I wouldn't want to live in an area where I NEEDED an urban survival handgun. I like trees, lots of trees...
 
I wrassled with this problem quite a while when I lived in the chi-town suburbs, and came to the conclusion that it is more a coise of calibers than a choice of firearms. It comes down to having a reliable firearm that you can easily and repeatidly hit what you aim at under extreme pressure and more than a little adrenalin. (shot placement is everything).
a .380 (9mm kurtz) is pretty much considered the minimum (although the .25 auto has resulted an many fatalities). The 380 also has the advantage of not shooting throug more than 3 or 5 thicknesess of wallboard (something to think about if loved ones are in the house).
I would not recommend a 38 special (get a 357 and shoot 38 special rounds in it instead) although the hammerless variants are tempting if you want to shoot from a pocket. The .357/38 has the widest variation of availible factory loads of any handgun that I have found (including shotshell loads). It should be noted that the performance of the 38 special aproximates that of the 9mm auto loads with similar bullet weights although the 9mm can typically be loaded to higher velocities and has slightly flatter balistics. I shoot both and both are easy to shoot well.
9mms have the advantage of high magazine capacity and very low recoil. The cartrige used by many police organizations and most of the worlds armies is not a bad choice.
My self defence hadgun of choice is an officers model .45acp with a alloy frame to reduce carry weight. It, too, is easy (for me) to shoot and accurate enough. Although others seem to have problems with the muzzel blast.

A local gun club can help make the coice easier and some ranges have rental guns that can be used to try different claibers.

What ever caliber that is selected get a brand name firearm and practise. I would also suggest joining a local club and getting some competion shooting training. This will help te ingrain use of baricades, clearing jams and reloading under pressure. (and it is quite entertaining)

Enjoy!
 
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