Choosing a metal for a knife edge pivot

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Sep 8, 2020
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Hello everyone. I have a question which is not strictly about knife making but something related. I want to make what's called a knife edge pivot, which is a fulcrum-based system used in electric guitars. The idea is that, at the center of the fulcrum you have the guitar's bridge. On one side of the fulcrum the strings are attached, and on the other side extension springs are attached. The tensions are balanced so that he bridge 'floats' in place, and then a lever is attached ('whammy bar') which you can push down or pull up, thus changing the tension and therefore the pitch of the strings. Here is a diagram.

The floating bridge pivots on knife edges machined into the bridge, either straight or circular. These edges are not sharp by any means; maybe about .4 mm. The bridge is placed so that these edges insert into grooves cut out of two pivot screws which are screwed into the guitar body, so the bridge can pivot up and down. My project is to make a piece of metal which has the knife edges filed into them, like so (except I'd have one circular and one straight) and also to make the pivot screws with precisely filed grooves and 1/4"-28 threads. And just to clarify, my system will work a bit differently than the last picture in that the edges will be held in place and the screws themselves will pivot, rather than the other way around.

The issue I am facing is which type of steel to use. Because the mechanism introduces lots of abrasion and wear, I want to use a hardened steel because as soon as the edge/groove starts to deform the guitar will no longer return to precise pitch after pivoting. However, in order to make the edges and create the threads and grooves in the screws I will need the steel to be in a softened state at first. Because the screw pivots back and forth, I don't think much ductility is required, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure how much I should worry about rust, though sweat and dirt particles will certainly find their way onto the edges because they are exposed.

What I'm thinking of doing is getting some tool steel (D2? A2? O1?) in annealed state, make the edges and threads, and then take it to someone to heat treat it for hardening. But I don't know how difficult it will be to work with those steels because, even annealed, they are still quite hard. I also don't know if their brittleness will be an issue with this type of mechanism. Perhaps I should use a tougher steel that is still hardenable? Do I need stainless? 440C? My priority is zero deformation. I am coming to this forum in hope for some guidance. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
 
Sounds like you're wanting to re-design the Floyd Rose...

No matter the material, you'll want to avoid actual "sharp" edges. It will deform & cause tuning and intonation issues that you'll constantly battle. Just make sure there is some kind of radius so the edge can pivot/roll (like a bearing) rather than rub. If you do that, a hard super-steel really isn't necessary. But, if you must, I would recommend stainless steel, like AEB-L.

If you're after a zero friction pivoting bridge, maybe look at pivoting on a shaft supported on tiny bearings?

Here's the last one I built with my oldest son (he's the avid guitarist). We used a vintage Floyd bridge & polished the edges of the bridge to a small (maybe .015''/.020'') radius. Whatever metal they use is pretty soft & crappy, but it stays in tune perfectly.

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Sounds like you're wanting to re-design the Floyd Rose...

No matter the material, you'll want to avoid actual "sharp" edges. It will deform & cause tuning and intonation issues that you'll constantly battle. Just make sure there is some kind of radius so the edge can pivot/roll (like a bearing) rather than rub. If you do that, a hard super-steel really isn't necessary. But, if you must, I would recommend stainless steel, like AEB-L.

If you're after a zero friction pivoting bridge, maybe look at pivoting on a shaft supported on tiny bearings?

Here's the last one I built with my oldest son (he's the avid guitarist). We used a vintage Floyd bridge & polished the edges of the bridge to a small (maybe .015''/.020'') radius. Whatever metal they use is pretty soft & crappy, but it stays in tune perfectly.
Hi Sam. Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I cannot see the images you posted.

AEB-L looks great. It's softer than D2 annealed but gets to a similar hardness after heat treatment and presumably has better corrosion resistance. Is there any issue with using the same material for both the edge and the posts?

Before considering reworking the knife edges I considered using heim joints. I am doing this job on a Mustang, where the two posts in the tailpiece pivot on edges filed into the nailed-down plate. My plan was to carve out some more space beneath the plate and drill two heim joints into the body of the guitar for the posts to pass through. I was excited about the idea, but I changed my mind after realizing that knife edge pivots must work well if they are used in balance scales and the like, and that the bearings aren't zero friction and if anything have MORE friction because the entire ball rotates against the lining (which, admittedly, is Teflon). I dunno... I'm still torn, to be honest.
 
Gotcha - I've never worked on one of those, so I'm not 100% sure what the best route is. I like the spherical rod end/heim joint idea best - BUT - I feel like teflon would have a massively negative impact on tone. All metal is definitely the best way to go. As for the friction, with 100-150 pounds of string tension in the average electric guitar, I doubt it would be noticable (but the smoothness sure would).
 
Gotcha - I've never worked on one of those, so I'm not 100% sure what the best route is.
It's the same mechanism as a Floyd at heart, except instead of the edges being part of the moving trem block and the pivot screws being secured in the body, it is the edges which are secured and the pivot screws move.

You've given me some renewed faith in the heim joint idea so I think I'm gonna go for it. As for the teflon, at this point I'm willing to sacrifice some tone for stability. If things work, I could try metal-on-metal heim joints and see what happens. I'm a bit concerned about how the balls will behave being pulled by different tensions from the tailpiece because I'm not attaching the top two strings to the tailpiece, but the balls are independent rather than being connected by a shaft so I'm hoping it will be okay.

One benefit of trying this method first is that, if it doesn't work, I'll know it doesn't work, rather than wondering if maybe I could file a better edge, should have used a different metal, etc.
 
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