Choosing between three cheap vegetable knives (Opinel and R. Herder)

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May 5, 2008
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Right now I'm using this to cut vegetables, raw chicken and the occasional food package:

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Stolen pic. a Robert Herder Molenmes from Solingen


And also an almost exactly similar knife from H.Herder also from Solingen. Sorry, no pic. Both have about 8 cm blade length.

They are extremely thin knives and very sharp.
(I had a carbon version which was so worn it had serrations which it didn't have originally and it still cut better then a new crappy 4 in 1 blister pack knife)


I want a knife like that but with the blade shape upside down, the curved bit at the bottom.
I don't know much about kitchen knives but I narrowed it down to three options which should all be good and cheap.

1 The Opinel no. 112 stainless with a 10 cm. blade which can be used in a dishwasher according to the Opinel website. (which surprises me since it has a wooden handle)

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Stolen pic.

2 The Opinel no. 102 (not mentioned on the Opinel website) which is the same knife but in carbon steel.

3 Or a Robert Herder again with 8.5 cm blade in stainless steel.


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Stolen pic.

The reason I picked these because they are cheap and they are basically the only brands I know.
I did use a Victorinox paring knife before but it didn't nearly slice as good as my Herders because the blade wasn't as thin.

Any advice? I'm leaning towards the Opinel carbon because I think Carbon might stay sharp longer and it seems to be out of production. Which is always cool.
 
How much are you looking to spend? If you are looking for something in the paring knife size, there are a few Japanese makers that do clad knives which give good edge retention. A lot of makers use carbon steel on knives, but the actual hardness and edge retention of these knives vary tremendously...for example, the carbon steel Wusthof has historically used has terrible edge retention compared to some of the other carbon options from other makers. Cutting surface will also affect edge retention...if your board is bamboo for example, you are going to be sharpening a lot more than if it is something such as long grain maple or teak. Victorinox makes OK budget paring knives and if I was going for super cheap, I may consider them. However, I only use a larger chef's knife and a paring knife for everything I do, so I went with a high-end one of each.

I personally find paring knives with blades more resembling wharncliff/insignio patterns are easier to control and use for a variety of foods than those with blades more like that of utility and drop points.
 
How much are you looking to spend? If you are looking for something in the paring knife size, there are a few Japanese makers that do clad knives which give good edge retention. A lot of makers use carbon steel on knives, but the actual hardness and edge retention of these knives vary tremendously...for example, the carbon steel Wusthof has historically used has terrible edge retention compared to some of the other carbon options from other makers. Cutting surface will also affect edge retention...if your board is bamboo for example, you are going to be sharpening a lot more than if it is something such as long grain maple or teak. Victorinox makes OK budget paring knives and if I was going for super cheap, I may consider them. However, I only use a larger chef's knife and a paring knife for everything I do, so I went with a high-end one of each.

I personally find paring knives with blades more resembling wharncliff/insignio patterns are easier to control and use for a variety of foods than those with blades more like that of utility and drop points.

Really as little as possible. I have to pay €17 for that Herder and €17 for two (of the same) Opinels. Which I already find very expensive for a small kitchen knife.
That's why I don't just buy all of them because it would get pretty expensive in my opinion.

Could you elaborate about why you think a wharncliff blade is better? I've been hurting my brain trying to figure out why so many paring knives have a wharncliff blade.
I only use the point of the edge because I'm using it at an angle. Which doesn't exactly give a smooth cutting experience.
 
I think the handle of my paring knife is the most important feature and would choose based on that. I have the opinal that is pictured, but find the handles a bit to small (dia) for my preference.
 
Really as little as possible. I have to pay €17 for that Herder and €17 for two (of the same) Opinels. Which I already find very expensive for a small kitchen knife.
That's why I don't just buy all of them because it would get pretty expensive in my opinion.

Could you elaborate about why you think a wharncliff blade is better? I've been hurting my brain trying to figure out why so many paring knives have a wharncliff blade.
I only use the point of the edge because I'm using it at an angle. Which doesn't exactly give a smooth cutting experience.

With a paring knife, a lot of cuts are made on an angle. Others are made with point-cutting. As I only use two knives (paring and 240 or 270mm chef's knife), I look for a versatile cutter. My paring knife may be used for skinning, scaling, chopping, dicing, mincing, point cutting, stripping, boning, etc. So whenever I advise a paring knife, I look at ones that are capable of multiple roles, gives edge retention of 154CM or better, and have good strength to withstand the impact kitchen knives see, including metal-on-metal contact with something like a sink or metal cookware/bakeware, or metal-on-ceramic content on a sink/dish/enameled tools.

Mine isn't quite the wharncliffe but closer to an insignio...but the important part is that like the wharncliffe, the edge is largely a flat line and it has changed from the traditional paring knife blades that cut on multiple planes to a single plane. I find this for kitchen usage to be extremely beneficial, especially for precision cuts and when cutting close to fingers.
chefknivestogo_2267_64992310



In the kitchen, it allows it to be used for things like slicing cheese without requiring rocking cuts to remove the bottom portion that will otherwise tear because a drop point with an unswept tip leaves a small amount of uncut portion. If you choke up on the knife for coring, you do not have to bend your wrist as much as on a drop point where you would have to bend the wrist more to get the upswept portion of the blade on the target. Sharpening is also easier IMO, and I find the blade making even impact with the board better disperses the shock and slows the speed of edge deformation. I also think when cutting close to fingers, operating on a single plane makes it easier to get close without cutting oneself. If you are making a tip cut/dragging cut, you may have to elevate a normal blade almost straight in the air in order to get the edge on what you want to cut...with this blade, a much more comfortable 45 degree angle works as well or better, and positioning is easier. I also believe the shape allows less force to be used for the same cut...my other paring knifes with equal sharpness require more force than this. I can use this knife in a traditional, hammer, or reverse hammer grip and still have complete control. I also like how the tip is stronger given my kitchen knives get used pretty heavily and sometimes see an accidental ding...one of which did a great job chipping a Shun I had.

If $40 is above the price range, there are prolly other models of similar designed. But for a paring knife, this is IMHO one of the best for the money as it's a $100 knife on a great sale. The blade steel is clad VG-10, which for that price range is an excellent option...edge retention is excellent and they harden it really well. It also has stain resistance that will be a lot better than a carbon steel, which on a paring knife is IMO desirable.

I own two Victorinox paring knives...for their price, they are beefy. However, the amount of force I have to use them to cut is tremendous compared to my Tojiro. By comparison, some of the mid-level brands like Wusthof, Shun, Global, and others do slightly better than the Victorinox, but they still lack a lot of performance. The problem with them and especially the Victorinox is that it often tends to 'mush' softer foods that when mushed may look nasty and taste different. This is the issue that led me to try more unusual blade types, which as the one being discussed. When you use the Tojiro, you immediately think of how much of a pleasure using it is, and how less effort you are using to do the same things yet how you are getting a better outcome. With a thickness of slightly under 2mm and with a very pronounced taper and fine edge, this knife could be used for slicing tomatoes without mushing them, but also be used to chop almonds followed by usage in trimming steak, chopping fresh herbs, peeling/coring fruit, prepping larger fruit for cutting (it's a dream use on a pineapple), and then for other misc. prep.

Sorry for the long response but that's why I've come to like the Tojiro so much.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todppakn90.html


I own this Victorinox...great for the price, but I do not like the blade shape nor how it does precision cutting. I now use it for trimming meat only and run it through the dishwaster given it's a composite handle and not very expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Sw...&qid=1379029375&sr=1-13&keywords=paring+knife


I also own this Global...I do not like it much. Handle is so/so, steel is lackluster, and using the front upsweep of the edge I find to be difficult, especially as the handle isn't well-suited to this.
http://www.amazon.com/Global-GS-38-...&qid=1379029473&sr=1-22&keywords=paring+knife


While not having used this, everything I have read says this beats most $50 paring knives and it performs similar to the more recent Wusthofs
http://www.amazon.com/Mercer-Cutler...&qid=1379029473&sr=1-19&keywords=paring+knife


Rada makes some good stuff for the price...and USA made. These have a great name, especially in professional kitchens.
http://www.amazon.com/Rada-Cutlery-...&qid=1379029473&sr=1-28&keywords=paring+knife
---> here is one for only 5 bucks! http://www.amazon.com/Cutlery-Super...&qid=1379029659&sr=1-47&keywords=paring+knife


A friend has this TD...I was very impressed, especially at the price. It is a Japanese knife made with very good steel for its class.
http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Douglas-P...&qid=1379029659&sr=1-42&keywords=paring+knife


And finally, one of my favorite paring knives was actually 6 bucks delivered to my doorstep. For a mass-produced and imported piece, they did everything right. I find the handle to be more comfortable and better-balanced than Wusthof. The edge retention isn't very impressive, but the overall package is, especially at its price-point. My biggest complaint tho, is that the blade is technically operating on 3 separate planes...but it's adaptable and reprofiling can give the knife a lot better performance. Lifetime warranty for only 6 bucks, too...
http://www.amazon.com/Farberware-Pr...&qid=1379029789&sr=1-56&keywords=paring+knife
 
From the three mentioned, I'd go for the stainless Opinel if its steel is the same Sandvik they use for their folders. Much harder than their carbon, much better edge retention, requires a better sharpener though, deburring is a little tricky for a very beginner. Expect a poor edge OOTB. In that respect Herder should do a little better if that matters.
All three are parers, and shouldn't IMHO be used for other purposes, as the OP seems to intend.
 
@ psnxyr
Thanks for the reply and the education. I checked out the knives you linked to and Rada has a nice line of cheap knives. (at least in the US)
The Farberware Pro is not available to me unfortunately.

The issue I have with a flat edge (wharncliff) is when I cut for example an onion the tip of the blade scrapes my cutting board. It doesn't feel smooth.
It doesn't help the counter being to low and having a raised edge (to stop water and crap from falling) so I have to use the knife at an angle.

I've been using my Sodbuster and the feeling is much smoother. Unfortunately it is not as thin as my Herder knives.
Basically I want to combine a round edge with a thin as possible blade.

@Benuser
I think I will go with the Herder then if I an find one in stainless. I'm not a very good sharpener. Yet.
I have not had any issues with the current stainless Herders I had. They require very little sharpening if at all.
 
I can't give you a scientific comparison of how well Rada performs versus others, but as far as the products I own from them go, I am very happy with the quality and incredibly happy with the quality relative to how inexpensive they are. Whenever I buy one of their products, I really don't have to shop too much as I figure if I get a product from them and like it, I can stop there and have a decent quality tool for dirt cheap. If I don't like it, the investment was minimal and I have a spare or something to give to a friend when they need something for the kitchen.

I bought something like 5 pizza cutters before getting their cutter...one of the ones I got was like 25 bucks and I hated it and the 8 dollar Rada I liked the most even tho it was the cheapest.
 
I just got a tojiro nakari for $45 and is extremely competent in my kitchen and at work.
 
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