Choosing Steel for a Knife Copy

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me2

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Oct 11, 2003
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I have long wanted an upgraded version of an old knife I had years ago. At the time I had one it was called the Scalper by Cold Steel. It was in Carbon V steel with simple wooden handles, which I replaced, then gave it away to a friend.

I understand similar models were made over the years but Carbon V was gone. Along the way I had a couple of product improvements. I’d like a slightly thicker blade in the 5/32-3/16 inch range. I’d also like a more durable handle material like G-10 or Micarta, or even a nicer, more durable wood. Also I’d like to add a curved transition from the handle to the school, as the original was a 45 degree slope.

Given those requirements, and the fact I plan to make it myself, what would be a good steel? The main trait is good toughness and ability to be heat treated by someone else, as I have no equipment for it now. I was thinking of A2, AEB-L, 80CrV2, O1, or maybe 15N20 if some is available in the proper thickness.

If I’m sending out a single blade or maybe 2 for heat treatment, which gives the most options? I’m assuming A2 or AEB-L, since they’re air hardening. In the spirit of the original knife, several low alloy steels are listed. Are heat treatment services available for these? The local machine shop I’ve used in the past has closed, otherwise I’d have them do it.
 
Single blade/ low number blade heat treat is available via Peters or Paul Bos. It’s not inexpensive, if you go this route. I wouldn’t be surprised if individuals here on the forum don’t offer their assistance. Good luck. I’m not equipped for heat treat, as of yet, so I go the commercial route.
 
Carbon V is similar to 50100b or 0176c I think it was, maybe look at 52100? It comes in a variety of sizes. Any of the steels you mention would work, just depends on what you want from it. Edge retention, easy sharpening, etc. A2 would probably be pretty sweet as well!
 
me2 said:
good toughness and ability to be heat treated by someone else [...] what would be a good steel
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All the steels you mentioned.
 
A2 is a great steel, I like it a lot., O1 is a good low alloy version. Easy to machine and finish and just about anyone with a heat treating oven and a little knowledge can do a pretty good job with them. Usually available precision ground which makes your life easier.
AEB-L can be finicky
 
I'll toss in the AEB-L you mentioned as a fairly inexpensive for GREAT steel for most any knife. Of course at the other end MagnaCut is a very top rated steel.... at a top rated price. I'm guessing you'll need around 11" to 12" for each blade? (6" cutting edge, 5" tang?) Looking at prices you'll see in the range of

MagnaCut can be around $75 for a 1/8"X2"X12" Or $150 for 2 of the pieces (+shipping)
AEB-L in 2" width (less if 1.5" will work) .136" ($13) or .162" ($15) thick is best ordered from Chuck at AKS for best prices and FREE shipping over $35 order.

Take a look down this page: https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/aeb-l-stainless-steel (Since AKS is a member vendor I think it's ok to post link?)
 
It is somewhat warpy when heat treating/cryo. Some recipes of AEB-L may react different to HT procotols based on the supplier and subtle differences in the steel recipe used by that supplier.
 
For thin (<.100" or so) it's generally recommended to profile only pre-HT, then bevels and finish grinding post-HT due to possible warping. For the thicker numbers you desire it's not so critical. I think Peters (or Paul Bos - one or the other) recommends grinding bevels to around .010" to .015" pre-HT and they'll send them back straight for you. I'd 'check with them before I did anything past profiling.

Larrin has done an excellent write up on AEB-L here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/03/04/all-about-aeb-l/
 
I grind all AEB-L post heat treat in thicknesses from .062 to .196. Currently I have a blank that is .040 at Bos, it may be a challenge.
 
I grind pretty much everything 100% post heat treat. S90V and some crazy steels like that I do some pre heat treat grinding.
 
I have found AEB-L to be very consistent with heat treat and warp is very limited with a stress releaving steps and quench plates. I recently heat treated 50 blanks for two maker friends and did not have to use the straightening hammer at all. All the blanks were unground.
 
I’ve long wanted a knife in O1 but I’ll explore heat treatment options and thicknesses available. The original was 1/8” x 12” x 1.375” with a 7” blade. A google search shows some reasonable and reliable heat treatment options. I’ll decide when and how much to grind after the thickness and steel are chosen. Magnacut, CPM 3V, etc are out of my price range for this project and generally don’t provide any benefit for my uses.
 
For the time being I’m leaning toward 80CrV2. It’s available the thickness I need, most places I’ve checked can heat treat it, it’s not too difficult to grind or polish, and it has better toughness than O1.
 
me2 said:
For the time being I’m leaning toward 80CrV2. It’s available the thickness I need, most places I’ve checked can heat treat it, it’s not too difficult to grind or polish, and it has better toughness than O1.
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80CrV2 is a great low alloy choice. The AKS 80CrV2 is super easy to heat treat.
 
Let the heat treat place know that it can decarb badly, so it should be protected during the heat treat process or you will have to remove a good bit of decarb unless they are using a vacuum purged oven or something to protect it from oxygen. I use ATP641 on it and it works pretty well to protect the steel. 80CRV2 is an excellent steel for that purpose too as well as 52100.

I have some thinner 3/32" 50100B at my shop; I just checked where I got it from and found the knifemaker supply place in the usa (hint hint) I got it from a few years ago actually still has 50100B in .145" thick, 3.5" wide and 36" long for $15. I just ordered 2 bars!

50100B is similar to 1095 with Chromium and Vanadium added to it:

pbcg said:
It depends on when it was produced. There where a couple of different steel variations depending on when and who was producing it.

Below are my quoted bullets from when I was researching Carbon V in an attempt to discover what the Seki Japan made Carbon V was. Posted the question in the Cold Steel forum and have yet to receive a reply.

But anyway, Bullets from my notes while researching Carbon V.

Carbon V was originally 0170-6

It is 0170-6 cutlery Steel...It was developed in the 1950's by sharon Steel specifically for Knives.

It is an enhanced 1095. They added Nickel--Chromium and a trace of Vanadium. it was a patented steel of Sharon.

This was the original Steel chosen by both Lynn Thomson for his Trailmaster and Mike Stewart for the Old Mamba. Everyone used it until 1988.

Sharon Steel went Bankrupt in 1988. No mill would duplicate the steel because the patent was still in effect.

Source: STR quoting Mike Stewart


Time line from Paul Tsujimoto, currently Sr. Engineer at KA-BAR

Here is the correct time line:

1) Cold Steel Carbon V was first produced in the Alcas Factory (Cutco and KA-BAR) Mid 1980s, Carbon V was originally 1095CV/0170-06/50100B.

2) Cold Steel moved to Ontario early 1990s. Carbon V started out as 1095CV/0170-06/50100B but while at Ontario, Dan Maragni removed the small amount of nickel from the formula.

3) Cold Steel moved to Camillus approx. 1995. Carbon V stayed 0170-06 minus the nickel.

Here is the chemistry for Sharon Steel 0170-06 (From Sharon Steel ref.book)

C: 0.95-1.10; Mn:0.30-0.50; P:0.025max; S: 0.025max; Si:0.15-0.25; Cr:0.40-0.60; Ni:0.25; Mo:0.06; V:0.15-0.25.

This is also the formula for KA-BAR's 1095CV. .
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So you can actually get the steel that was the original Carbon V from the 80's.
 
Since I’m not doing the heat treatment myself, it seems I have more options. I’ve been digging around for HT services and steel availability in terms of size and thickness. It looks like there really isn’t a downside to using AEB-L. It has all the properties I’m looking for and is a little cheaper than some other options. The heat treatment is slightly more, but that is offset by the material price. The stainless attribute is t something I need, but since I’m already making some product improvements, it’s not off the table either. I’m building to a concept rather than making a clone. If I’m using thicker steel and upgraded handle material, I might as well add stainless properties too.
 
From my experience most of the people who like low alloy were blown away by AEB-L when I convinced them to try it.
 
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