Chopper Supersteel

A

Atemporal

Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Messages
47
I see many threads about supersteels meant for slicing knives, but not for choppers. If you were looking to create your ultimate--Machete, kukri, tomahawk, cleaver, ect.--and price was no object, which steel would you choose? Of course edge retention is less of an issue compared to toughness. Would S90V, M390, or M4 make the list? L6? If not, what then?
 
3v if I want great toughness and good edge holding, s7 if I wanted even more toughness and didn't care as much about edge holding, 5160, 10xx, L6, possibly m4, no s90v and probably not m390 for a chopper though
 
I was thinking between 3V, S7, INFI, and 5160, but I didn't want to leave a bias in the field ;) This pretty much confirms what I've heard that for general chopping performance, 3V wins; INFI is proprietary, S7 is too specialized, and 5160 is good, but not a supersteel with normal heat-treating skill. Thanks for the quick responses.
 
3V!

Always choose 3V. In all knives if given the choice. Even for diving knives, cause live dangerously my friend!
 
If i have the cash to splurge it will be 3V.
If not the old spring steel from 1055-9260 will do the trick. Trust me you won't test your blade to the extent of Noss4.
All of the above is NOT TRUE if the HT is shite.
 
M4 is used by some guys in the cutting competitions. The Benchmade competition cutter is M4 from what I understand. I'd probably go with that.
 
JayGoliath said:
If i have the cash to splurge it will be 3V.
If not the old spring steel from 1055-9260 will do the trick. Trust me you won't test your blade to the extent of Noss4.
All of the above is NOT TRUE if the HT is shite.
Click to expand...
Of course, HT is what really makes a knife, but steel defines maximum potential. I just got inspired by the "dream knife" thread, and started wondering how I could improve on a HI kukri. All I could think to change was the steel (and handle shape :rolleyes:). Of course they have quite a reputation despite being made from unknown truck springs, the chiruwa ang khola is the only knife I know of where use as a prybar is under warranty. I just can't help but think that a CPM-3V version could do the same thing without needing to weigh 3 lbs and be 1/2 " thick at the spine. Or maybe those are good things because it is a chopper. Sigh. I just like to over-think things. I got all exited over metallurgical papers about so-called "super bainite". At least CPM-3V is useful (and possible to obtain).
 
Mate,

You have to understand that JACK OF ALL TRADE, MASTER OF NONE is what you are seeking.
Other than the steel and HT, you have the grind, weight, ergos and intents of use to go with. I might have skipped some other points but it's not relevant here.

First of all a true Khukuri is not meant to pry and believed me i had the same learning curve as you did. I wanted a Super CAK very bad but as the years go i learned that i don't NEED that. Ask any true Gurkhas and they will hand you a Halligan tool instead of their heirlooms.
True,a khuk made out of CPM3V will be excellent with the notion you will depend your life on it. (that makes life very boring because you will end up with one and only). Quite the fact if you abuse it enough 3V will not stand, SM-100 will sound much better but it will take your organs for it. If you have use a khuk properly, say CAK in this case, have you try to pry a car door with it? May i suggest you try it? (do practice safety)

I suggest that you start by using your most fav knife/chopper (chosen for the ergo, shape and probably price point and etc) and go out to do what you always do and maybe stretch that a bit- Just the knife itself as a survival tool. It should give you a better idea if you are left in the wild, having to maintain a blade from corrosive tree saps,dirt, chipping/rolling from pebbles, ease of sharpening with river-washed stone or even food preparation and try to carry it around you. Try to do so with ONLY that blade for a month and then try to carry it longer (3 months) to hikings or just plain cutting. You will realize what you NEED from what you WANT.

Oh...what an aging brain i have. This is still about the steel.
 
Last edited:
As someone has previously stated: CPM-3V or INFI. Non "supersteel" would go to 5160.
 
Atemporal said:
I see many threads about supersteels meant for slicing knives, but not for choppers. If you were looking to create your ultimate--Machete, kukri, tomahawk, cleaver, ect.--and price was no object, which steel would you choose? Of course edge retention is less of an issue compared to toughness. Would S90V, M390, or M4 make the list? L6? If not, what then?
Click to expand...

When we are talking about choppers, one would likely have Toughness and Strength over other things such as corrosion resistance and wear resistance (only a few of the factors when choosing a blade steel for an application).

What does this mean? Well, lets try and keep this simple. Have a look here.

http://www.hypefreeblades.com/files/schneiden.pdf

See the white irregular stuff. Those are to my knowledge, some form of carbides. The larger they are, the more chances of fracturing of a steel along them. Now look at O1 compared to any other. O1 is a low carbide steel (to my knowledge) and makes for a great steel for blades on the larger side.

I came up with the following rule for myself. If I want wear resistance, then a large carbide steel can work. If I want thoroughness and strength, stick to the old steels such as O1, 1095, 52100 and the newest being INFI (that has better corrosion resistance). Of course, they all need to be heat treated properly.
 
JayGoliath said:
Mate,

You have to understand that JACK OF ALL TRADE, MASTER OF NONE is what you are seeking.
Other than the steel and HT, you have the grind, weight, ergos and intents of use to go with. I might have skipped some other points but it's not relevant here.

First of all a true Khukuri is not meant to pry and believed me i had the same learning curve as you did. I wanted a Super CAK very bad but as the years go i learned that i don't NEED that. Ask any true Gurkhas and they will hand you a Halligan tool instead of their heirlooms.
True,a khuk made out of CPM3V will be excellent with the notion you will depend your life on it. (that makes life very boring because you will end up with one and only). Quite the fact if you abuse it enough 3V will not stand, SM-100 will sound much better but it will take your organs for it. If you have use a khuk properly, say CAK in this case, have you try to pry a car door with it? May i suggest you try it? (do practice safety)

I suggest that you start by using your most fav knife/chopper (chosen for the ergo, shape and probably price point and etc) and go out to do what you always do and maybe stretch that a bit- Just the knife itself as a survival tool. It should give you a better idea if you are left in the wild, having to maintain a blade from corrosive tree saps,dirt, chipping/rolling from pebbles, ease of sharpening with river-washed stone or even food preparation and try to carry it around you. Try to do so with ONLY that blade for a month and then try to carry it longer (3 months) to hikings or just plain cutting. You will realize what you NEED from what you WANT.

Oh...what an aging brain i have. This is still about the steel.
Click to expand...

very good point. I also agree with the, if you cannot sharpen it "easily" with natural things in the wild, if it gets dull its useless. truthfully i love 1095. I wont cut through a car door, but if i had to i would pry withit, ifi mucked hp the blaxd meh generally inexpensive. 3v choppers are not.
 
I like S7. It won't stay shaving sharp as long as the other supersteels, but it will keep going beautifully for as long as you have stuff to chop.,
 
3V
L6
5160
S1
A8(mod)
S7
Zwear and other Vascowear powder steels for better wear, a bit less toughness.
 
Let's put this in perspective. At the very low-tech end, some awesome choppers/comp knives have been made from 1080/1084 steel, which is about as simple as it gets. The infamous Noss tested a factory Crowell/Barker Comp Cutter far, far beyond what most of us would ever do to a knife, and it performed ridiculously well.

CPM-3V is awfully darn good for knives large (58Rc) or small (60-62Rc). It's tougher than any sane user would ever need, holds an edge very well, and is not terribly bad about rust/pitting - roughly equal to D2. Reports of it being difficult to sharpen are grossly overstated, and in my opinion, often have as much to do with lousy edge geometry as they do with wear-resistance.

CPM-M4 is used in a great many winning competition cutters. It's not nearly as tough as 3V, but has significantly better wear-resistance. Check out some comp vids - these guys beat the dickens out of their blades and do very fine, controlled cuts.

At the far end of the alloy spectrum, a respected maker named Farid has made a couple of 68Rc (!) choppers out of CPM REX 121, a super-duper tooling steel with crazy high amounts of carbon, vanadium and tungsten that is not at all known for toughness. He overcame its lack of toughness with extreme geometry.

I'm working on a comp/camp style knife with an alloy that I don't think anyone has used for that purpose before. It has better toughness than M4, equal to or possibly better edge-retention than 3V, and is far more corrosion-resistant than either.
 
Last edited:
Interesting idea about the 'ultimate machete/cleaver'. I can relate to the concept and have done considerable searching myself. There are a host of opposable arguments that are neatly couched in various opinions as well as some great suggestions here. The search is a process that can bring sufficient joy and entertainment. The quest is a slice of the addiction that ususally remains with us for life. The search is also exceeding costly. Many a collector can be compared to a funambulist. It is an act to keep your spending in check!

Way back in the day, I was told to buy a 30.06 rifle. Of course, I had my heart set on other 'better' calibers for the hunt. Following MANY years of searching for the best rifle and caliber, I found myself back where I had started. I went through reloading trying to get the optimal performance from my loads, tired all types of rifles in odd calibers and spent far too much dough in the process. Now I find that 30.06 and .308 have established a firm grip on my mind. If I had regarded what was offered to me those many years ago, I'd have more money in the bank today.

So, when the Basic 9 seems a bit too short for a chopping scenario, I use my simple 18 inch Ontario machete. The geometry is right and the tool is easy to sharpen. This old friend works every time and is enough for me. Also, I am not afraid to lend it out to the local Boy Scout troop.
 
I have a few hawks made out of 6150 and I love it. In my experience it holds a working edge longer than other popular spring steels used to make hawks and kukri but is also a bit harder to sharpen. I guess that is always going to be a trade off between hardness and ability to be sharpened by average Joe or in primitive situations.
 
My vote is S7, M4, 5160, 1095, INFI, SR101 or unobtanium not in that order. :D;) I have an old tramontina bowie in "high carbon" steel that I've beat the dickens out of and it's still going strong (cost me about $45.oo) so it's all relative to what you really need as compared to want as someone mentioned above. Just my opinion... :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top