ChuckG, I need some assistance/ideas?

R

Rylorien

Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
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Okay, not sure if you caught the post about making bali handles, but after a little bit of garnered info, I have found out that I need a milling machine to make bali handles, say out of Aluminum, someone said that you were and advocate of this and had some ideas on it, so my questions are do you have some info/assistance on how to make bali handles, also, how much should I pay/what type of milling machine do I need?
Thanks in advance
Dennis

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Is that all you monks ever think about? Sects! Sects! Sects!
 
Rylorien,

I understand wanting to make your own handles. As in your other thread, I said that I'm doing the same thing. I don't understand one thing though. What about the blades? Are you just going to take them off of other bali's and put your handles on? That could be an expensive hobby. Not trying to deter you from learning or this project. Just curious. Milling machines are expensive to buy. Even when they are bought used. They are precision machines accurate to .001 of an inch. You pay a lot for that kind of accuracy. Good luck.

Steve
 
Steve, I allready know how plus have the materials to make blades, have several bowies in progress, mostly stock removal, I am not very good at forging them, and can see the principal idea behind changing the patern to fit as a balisong, but the problem was the handles not the blades, but yeah I can see where you would ask that. :>)
Dennis

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Is that all you monks ever think about? Sects! Sects! Sects!
 
Ok first thing. Four Questions.

#1 how badly do you want to make handles for balsong knives.

#2 how much do you know about the the relationship of the blade to the handles and the overall geomentry of the balisong knife?

#3 how much experience do you have with a vertical milling machine or as a machinist?

#4 how much money are you willing to invest in your operation?

Once I get an idea of where you are coming from in the way of experience, I may be able to help with more specifics, but for the time being here is what I can offer.

Depending on the model, some small table top mills have the power to mill aluminum with relitive ease. $2,000.00 to $5,000.00

The one of the biggest problems with these types of mills is the amount of travel they have on the X, Y, and Z axis

You need to be able to make a complete mill cut without moving or repositioning the work piece.

For harder or more difficult materials, a bigger mill is needed. 10,000.00 to $20,000.00 and up some as much as $50,000.00

For any stainless milling you must have a coolant feed or the material will work harden and you will break mills left and right.

You can dry mill aluminum, but I don't recommend it. Using a coolant speeds up milling speed and cuts down on end mill wear and tear.

Coolants can be material specific,
get one that is suitable for all materials.

Also remember this, some materials are REACTIVE.
Aluminum is one of them. so is Titanium. The chips under the right circumstances can catch fire.

Aluminum dust plus Iron Oxide (rust) equals
THERMITE. The stuff that will burn through steel.

The biggest reason for using a vertical mill is the stability and the weight of the mill itself. It just doesn't move.

Also to get the power necessary you are talking about a 220 volt or a 480 volt machine. Getting that amount a electricty can be a problem.

Then there is the cost of your milling vise.
$500.00 and up. Figure on at least another thousand plus for tooling.

You will also need a small lathe to turn the small parts. $1500.00 to $5,000.00

Metal cutting band saws, $1,500.00 to $3,000.00

Wood cutting band saws operate at too high a blade speed to cut metel regardless of what the manufacture's say they can do

There are lathe-milling machine combos out there but one can run a minimum of $3,500.00.
The better ones will be higher.

You can easly have $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 or more invested before you make one set of handles.

If you make knifes already, then you may have some of the equipment already, if so great.

I make handles out of aluminum, brass and stainless steel. Each has its own unique problems when milling. Way to many to go into detail here.

Sorry I could be more specific, but I don't know from what level of machinist experience you are coming from.

I can tell you that it takes a long time to learn how to make a vertical mill do what you want, and you will ruin a lot of material along the way.

Been there, Done that.

If you are going to buy a vertical mill, spend the money! Don't try to make do.
It doesn't work out in the long run.

If I can help further let me know.

Regards to All

ChuckG


 
And i thought collecting knives were expensive.

Wait until you start making knives.
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biggrin.gif
 
Hm, well, after careful consideration and all the wonderful information that popped up in my other thread on bali handles, I decided, for now I am just going to fiddle around with Phillipino style(sandwich) handles, and then at some later point get into milling them, I have never used a Mill, but have used lathes, drill presses, and just about everything else, (used to make kit pipes out of briar and meershaum). So after pondering my lack of experience with the machine, coupled with the phenomonally high value, I think I will try the phillipino style handles, due to the fact that at the moment, it will only set me back the cost of materials to make those. But thanks for Responding Chuck, I do appreciate it, and perhaps I will find a location in my area where I can do some milling without shelling out for the machine, but just renting time on one or something of that nature.


Dennis

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Is that all you monks ever think about? Sects! Sects! Sects!
 
Alot of very good balisong knives are made using the sandwich method of making the handles.

I have seen several by Erickson that have sandwich handles and I know that there are many other makers out there that use the same method.

One other thing, you might check with some of the machine tool supplier's in you area, most will take used mills in trade or buy out machine shops that are going out of business and you may be able to pick up a used mill that is in good condition for far less than the cost of a new mill

If you do find a used mill, get a warranty on the tolerance of the mill. Some are excellent, and others are so worn out that you would be lucky to hold to tenths of an inch let alone thousands

Good Luck to whatever you decide, and if I can help further let me know.

Regards to ALL

ChuckG
 
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