Church, Fool!

Dijos

Dijos

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
2,600
My GF and I have been going through a multitude of church-related issues lately. I should remind you that I have a child out of wedlock with someone else, and we are shacked up. We obviously don't go to church. This is not from a lack of desire, but from a lack of place. You see, I was raised catholic, and other catholics can agree, when you are catholic, it's more than just a religion, it's kind of cultural-like judaism. You may not go to mass, but you know the one place you go is a catholic church-why go anyplace else?
My GF is not catholic. She wails upon the sins of the church (numerous) and recent scandals (scary), and I can't altogether disagree with her. But, she does not have a better solution, so we butt heads, and never go to church.

I wanted to know from any of the many church goers here about their personal experiences in finding a new church/religion. I appreciate all responses, and hope that this doesnt turn into a war.
 
I'm a bit of a church-goer myself.

I'm Missouri Synod Lutheran. http://www.lcms.org

Each time I've moved to a new city, being Mo Synod Lutheran has narrowed the list, but I still have to find the congregation that fits me, where I feel comfortable.

Sometimes, I attend services a few Sundays and know that this is just not the one. Others take a year of attending to finally decide that this just isn't right for me. Sometime, I've known on the first Sunday that this was it.

My advice is to try a few churches. Thanks to the internet, you can do some research ahead of time. Most churches these days have websites. You can look at see if this church looks good to you.

But, remember that churches aren't social clubs. It's not about finding a "fun" place. It's about finding a place where your spiritual needs will be ministered too.
 
I'm an aethiest myself, but I understand the need of some people to follow their cultural/ancestral/genetic roots and form into groups for support and fellowship.

Have you tried any of the non-denominational churches? Usually informal, very open and friendly, and they can be found in most areas. If I were to take an interest in Christian religion, that's where I'd start.

Good Luck,
Bob
 
I was born and raised catholic... I was away for years and went back when I realized I was missin something. I did not find it anywhere in the bars,movies, women etc... I am a big bullheaded guy that can do about anything I put my mind too. For years I tried to "reason God" out and make all the excuses toward church- you know the fact that men- who run and frequent churches are not perfect and mess up and even sayin it was God who told em so etc... I was in the Catholic church and realized there had to be more. I tell you if you Hunger for God and seek Him -YOU WILL find HIM. When I did He got ahold of me using weapons of all things- talk about un-PC... but it was about the only way I would have listened back then... Anyhow I ended up in a church that I heard about and thought was full of a bunch of nuts- you know one of them "holy roller churches" one that most catholics recoil from because we are tought from an early age it is not right... The main pastor was an ex catholic boy from an italian family with six boys .. we have alot of "ex catholic" and other denominations here" ... I will share a few things that may help..


There is no "perfect church" if there was as soon as you or I would show up it could not be perfect...

Go to a church where the bible is tought- not only preached- open your heart and it WILL change your life...

Realize the goal is to get closer top God... you may be "offended" if the sermon mentions living in sin but realize it is biblical- now for someone to beat you up over it is not God's heart. There are several examples of Jesus accepting sinners of that nature... He only says to change... sooner may be better but it can take time. at our church we accept people with all sorts of stuff, the closest to an official "snub" is if known you will not be allowed to work as a volunteer representing the church... we love you not the sin. If you go somewhere and an individual messses with you goto the staff and find out. It very well may be one of those imperfect people trying to represent the church and THEY need to be corrected.

Dude- NONE of us is perfect and if your issues are a bit more obvious - it is not a bigger spiritual deal than others. God loves you RIGHT NOW... if you or I wait till we are perfect or know enough we will never start

Realize you correct your kids and love them- sometime we do tell our kids something they don't want to hear. We are Gods Kids and we WILL hear things from Him that we will need to work on. I tell you this. If you are convicted by God or His word- He will empower you to make those changes. If I or another "christian" tell you to quit something or another and it is not truly inspired by God there is no help other than the ocasional encouragement- or nagg it will frustrate you.. I know from experience

When I started to get serious the "giving thing" was something I really got madd at- I mean look at all the crooks that were stealin in the name of Jesus... The most freeing thing to happen to me is differentiating between giving to God and man. If I truly feel led to help or give... I give to that situation.. in the name of God or to Him If the reciepient mis uses what I gave- it does not matter anymore- my blessing or harvest comes from God- if someone does mis use it yes I will make note of it and pray about it for future giving decisions- it may have been a mistake or a bad situation or heart there is a difference.... BTW I now know that I know for I have experienced it time and time again... YOU CAN"T OUT GIVE GOD!!!!!!!!

I know from experience God will be as real as we let Him be in our lives. I would have bet everything I own that I would not be going to jails as I did just last night sharing God , singing in a choir in front of a thousand,teaching kids,adults, walking in projects at night without fear and even being "respected" by the local thugs for what we do for thier kids,workin in soup kitchens,talkin one one one- heck even talkin of Him on the net today for/with God and not too many years ago. I have been changed and blessed all along the way. I have a LONG way to go too but even in my imperfection My God has been faithful and Good to me and He will be to you... if you let Him.

I am sorry I am going on and on but if any you have any questions for me get ahold of me- I'd even call ya if ya need me too God Bless-paul

BTW my home church is www.myfaithfamily.com there are sermons online you can listen too there, listen to a few... with an open heart.
and remember
jesuslovesyou.JPG
 
I can't add much to tallpaul. I was raised Catholic (schools until college), and had a born-again experience at age 19. Since then I have been active in one nondenominational church (with strong Pentecostal roots) and two Assembly of God churches (also Pentecostal).

In my experience, it was about finding God, not finding a church. I found Him in a church (rather, He found me, since I was not looking), but the personal experience is more important than the building.

Examine what it is you are presently looking for. Do you think you are in a healthy personal/spiritual situation? If the answer is no, are you looking to simply feel better about yourself without change, or are you looking to be challenged to a closer walk with God? Do you just want to "go to church" out of some kind of guilt or habit, or are you looking for a fresh experience?

My experience in spirit-filled Churches is that there is a dynamic of personal rwlationship with God, a singular focus on that relationship, a fellowship of like minded people (sinners all, to be sure) and a joy in serving God and others that I never experienced in 19 years of Catholic church. A skeptic by nature, I researched my roots and found that many Cathlic traditions (prayer to saints, veneration of and prayer to Mary, confession, chastity for priests) are not biblically based, but are traditions of men. I think there is where you find a lot of the problems in the church, and it is no wonder, since they have strayed from the biblical model.

A healthy church will do several things:
accept you as you are into the church
speak truth about sin and our sinfulness
convict you of sin (open your eyes to see, and desire a change)
preach grace, forgiveness, and salvation found in Christ
encourage you to read the bible on your own, not simply accept what is preached
teach that good works are not the basis of our salvation or goodness, but should flow from a sanctified heart
not spend too much time on money - God doesn't need your money, but your obedience in giving to the work of the church is a true test of your heart
God does not necesarily want to make you (or the preacher) rich, no matter what the preacher says. God will proseper and supply your needs, but is more concerned with your heart than your wallet.
 
If your woman won't go with you, just go by yourself. She will do one of these, either she will go with you because of guilt or loneliness on Sunday morning and either believe or not believe in God. Or, she could see this as a guilt trip laid on her, and break up with you because of it. You can't blame her for holding you back if you really want to go. I was born and raised Catholic, my parents went back to church as support for me and my siblings and became closer to God, maybe it will happen for me that way. I really enjoy Christmas midnight mass, but other than that, I don't go to church. I believe in God, but I choose to set aside worship time whenever, or where ever, usually outside in the wilderness, maybe on a hiking trail, or when I'm driving somewhere on Sunday morning. Personally, I believe that men and women can make up their own minds about religion. I don't believe in God as an old man sitting on a cloud somewhere, more of a Great Spirit, I would even go so far as to say, a force, not in Star Wars terms, but a force that binds all of us and nature, and those things crafted from nature. Instead of the Holy Trinity, I believe that the Holy Spirit, or Ghost, is the main part. Yeah, I believe that Jesus came down and saved us from ourselves, yeah I sometimes grapple with my faith in the existence of God, I used to believe in and HATE God also for things that have happened to my family. I wouldn't say I love God, I can't see how somebody can love something that they can't physically feel, but I have faith that somewhere, God is watching. Is organized religion bad? No, but some of the people that run those religions are, or at least misguided, and many people of all religions have twisted the canon for their own profit. The actions of the misguided and hypocritical do not make me condemn the Catholic church as a whole. I have lots of respect for the current Pope, I like my pastors. Do I view them as great holy men? Not really. My parents, uncles, aunts, both grandmothers and some friends chide me sometimes about not going to church. They know that I believe in God, and that I am trying to develop a relationship with God, but I need to find Him (or Her or It...) in my own way. I believe that there is nothing holding you back but yourself. If your girl loves you, she will either go with you or at least let you go.

A reason I don't go on Sunday might also be that I can't get my a$$ out of bed in the morning :D .

Yeah, as a Catholic, I believe in intelligent design, that someone had to have at least been there to push the button of the engine that is evolution, I believe that the most powerful being in the universe came to Earth and endured great hardships to save mankind from themselves, and I don't believe that we were in imminent physical danger, we were in danger of losing our souls and needed to realize that that was a big FUBAR scenario! One of my favorite movie quotes has to be Kevin Spacey as Keyser Soze in the Usual Suspects, "...the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making the world think he didn't exist". That is very true. I don't know if I believe in angels flying around the heavens with wings, fighting demons with swords, but I believe that there was an entity, who was dearly loved by God, and who turned against him for his own profit. From what I have read, the devil was forgiven numerous times. Is he in Hell, is there really a Hell? I don't know, but I do know that evil is a real and powerful force, and that it is very hard to try to do the right thing.

I may sound like a crazed Bible thumper in the above post, but I hate it when people thump at me, even though I know they care. I've learned to not casually call anyone religious a goofball and be more receptive to organized religion. If nothing else, try it out for a while and see what you think.
 
RH said:
I can't add much to tallpaul. I was raised Catholic (schools until college), and had a born-again experience at age 19. Since then I have been active in one nondenominational church (with strong Pentecostal roots) and two Assembly of God churches (also Pentecostal).

In my experience, it was about finding God, not finding a church. I found Him in a church (rather, He found me, since I was not looking), but the personal experience is more important than the building.

Examine what it is you are presently looking for. Do you think you are in a healthy personal/spiritual situation? If the answer is no, are you looking to simply feel better about yourself without change, or are you looking to be challenged to a closer walk with God? Do you just want to "go to church" out of some kind of guilt or habit, or are you looking for a fresh experience?

My experience in spirit-filled Churches is that there is a dynamic of personal rwlationship with God, a singular focus on that relationship, a fellowship of like minded people (sinners all, to be sure) and a joy in serving God and others that I never experienced in 19 years of Catholic church. A skeptic by nature, I researched my roots and found that many Cathlic traditions (prayer to saints, veneration of and prayer to Mary, confession, chastity for priests) are not biblically based, but are traditions of men. I think there is where you find a lot of the problems in the church, and it is no wonder, since they have strayed from the biblical model.

A healthy church will do several things:
accept you as you are into the church
speak truth about sin and our sinfulness
convict you of sin (open your eyes to see, and desire a change)
preach grace, forgiveness, and salvation found in Christ
encourage you to read the bible on your own, not simply accept what is preached
teach that good works are not the basis of our salvation or goodness, but should flow from a sanctified heart
not spend too much time on money - God doesn't need your money, but your obedience in giving to the work of the church is a true test of your heart
God does not necesarily want to make you (or the preacher) rich, no matter what the preacher says. God will proseper and supply your needs, but is more concerned with your heart than your wallet.
Click to expand...

At the church I sometimes attend, people vie for power, or what they think is power, by being on the church committee, maybe a CCD teacher, and they condemn those that do not sit in the front pew, who don't drive the brand new cars, who do not follow them to the letter. These people are everywhere, in every religion. Don't pay any attention to them. God doesn't care who you are or what you drive, whether you have a Sebenza in your pocket or a POS Chinese knockoff :D. If you hate him or if you love him, believe in him or not, he will always be there for you. Even as I write this, I believe it, and question myself as to why I don't go to church, a friend of mine who is an atheist, who has no doubts about his choice, has said that I am not doing right by myself in so much as I don't go to church, even though I believe that it is necessary. You can get involved in church functions, I actually think it is good to help out and get to know people in the community. People are people, they will condemn, they will chastise, they will talk behind your back, but don't let it get to you. God doesn't give a sh**, all he cares about is whether you believe and love him. I personally think that God is an entity that feeds on love, that needs it. This is something to think long and hard about. I have been thinking about my decision for the past ten years.
 
You certainly posed the most difficult question I have seen on these forums! A new congregation can only be found by looking around and "tasting" how they feel. A new religion is even more difficult as it in some cases involves a lot more than just going to church every sunday. Then of course there is the alternative of just trying to live ethically and not belong to any more or less organized religion.

TLM
 
My wife grew up Catholic, but in name only. I grew up in a very formal United Methodist Church.
Neither one of us ever fit in at our respective churches. In fact, we can't stand going back to those places.
When I went to college, I lived across the street from a movie theater. A church rented it out every Sunday morning. I checked it out and loved it.
I refuse to go to formal church anymore. If I can't wear jeans and a t-shirt with my flip flops, I don't go.

We moved to Wilmington, NC about two years ago and visited at least 10 churches before we found a place we felt comfortable.
Some denominations are generally more easy going than others. Calvary Chapel is a neat church movement. Vineyard churches are neat. And you never know until you just decide to give a new church a shot. And if nothing else, there's usually free coffee and donuts. ;) :)
 
Thats what I don't like, people worry too much about what everyone else is wearing and where they're sitting. Wearing dirty, ragged, holey clothes and smelling like you bathed in a cesspool, that's not kosher in my book, but when I am on vacation with my family, and they ask my honey and I to go to church, I'll go, usually in a teeshirt, shorts and Nike sandals. I take my hat off as a sign of reverence, but I could care less what the people are wearing (although it is a beach resort, there is a lot of stuff to ogle, for some reason I like going to that church ;) )
 
silenthunterstudios said:
If your woman won't go with you, just go by yourself. She will do one of these, either she will go with you because of guilt or loneliness on Sunday morning and either believe or not believe in God. Or, she could see this as a guilt trip laid on her, and break up with you because of it. You can't blame her for holding you back if you really want to go.
Click to expand...

Actually another thing can Happen - I have seen it time and time again. If you start going and God starts moving in your life and changing you for the better- those closest to you WILL see it and even if we don't say anything they will be drawn to God. If thier heart is not hardened to a point of no return they will eventually "get it"

We as men were created to be the head of our households and leaders in spirituality. It is a sad fact that for years the ladies had to rise up and take our place being close to God because we were taught of the world to do otherwise. The often misquoted verse of Wives submit to your husbands is not to be taken as a right to slavery or domination. When taken in context it talks of us as men doing the right things and then our ladies will submit because we are doing the right Godly things. It is time for us as men to rise up and take the lead and be the examples we are meant to be for not only ourselves but our families and those we influence. This is not just a giving up or giving in mentality- there is real power here. I am telling you the power of Jesus and God is real. I walked into a truckers business one time with a submachinegun and a silencer... I put it together and shot it in his building and it never phased anyone. After God got ahold of me and I could not help but to bring Him up I would walk in and say one thing about Jesus and it would clear the room :eek: now that is kinda silly but is it? I have seen so many healings and outright deliverence from impossible situations that it is not even funny anymore... I guess I am trying to say that if you get in the right church and get fed the word of God and apply it you will just be amazed at what will happen in your life and those around you...
 
hmmm. I notice someone dinged me for negative rep points on this thread, with no reason or explanation.

I suspect it may be someone offended at my post, perhaps a Cathloic who is offended by what I wrote.

Let me set that person straight. This is the community forum. The man asked a question regarding the other members "personal experience". I answered truthfully, again, based on my personal experience. What is your beef, you nameless negative rep point giver??? Are you doubting my personal experience? Do I not have a right to answer a straighforward question?

Perhaps you are offended by what I specifically said about certain Catholic practices, that they are not biblically based. Instead of putting out negative points, cite me chapter and verse that will refute what I posted.

Mods, if this is out of line or in the wrong place I apologize, but this is nonsense. I am way past the age of doing things to please others or look "cool", especially strangers on the internet. I consider myself practically a plankholder ay BFC, with the lenghth of time I've been here. If my online "reputation" is going to be based on some anonymous joker taking virtual potshots, I''d just as soon find another place to enjoy my hobby, maybe where the grownups are.
 
I'm 20 and was raised Christian - church every Sunday, memorizing Bible verses, whole nine yards. I've been baptized three times (I think - could be two), "accepted" Jesus a few times, etc, and never really felt it. For me, it was all just something I did because my parents did and they wanted me to. I've never felt the "presence of God" or him speaking to me or anything like that, like people always say they do, nor have I ever seen an "answer to prayer" as anything above and beyond simple coincidence or luck.

I basically view organized religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism or what have you, as mostly a human fabrication that can be twisted to say whatever you want it to say. Peace, war, love, hate....it all comes from the same writings. Divinely inspired or not, people can take them to mean anything they damn well please. The hypocrisy and open interpretation in religion bothers me to no end, so I try to stay away from it all.

The only disconnect I have is in relation to evolution. For me, it doesn't stand up scientifically, so there must've been intelligent design somewhere. Logically, there is a god. However, I doubt he really gives a **** about the world or what happens in it - deism? I forget, and don't care enough to look it up.

I only go to church because my parents like me to sometimes, and because the pastor is one of the best speakers I've ever heard, regardless of message.

Brian
 
tallpaul said:
I was born and raised catholic... I was away for years and went back when I realized I was missin something. I did not find it anywhere in the bars,movies, women etc... I am a big bullheaded guy that can do about anything I put my mind too. For years I tried to "reason God" out and make all the excuses toward church- you know the fact that men- who run and frequent churches are not perfect and mess up and even sayin it was God who told em so etc... I was in the Catholic church and realized there had to be more. I tell you if you Hunger for God and seek Him -YOU WILL find HIM. When I did He got ahold of me using weapons of all things- talk about un-PC... but it was about the only way I would have listened back then... Anyhow I ended up in a church that I heard about and thought was full of a bunch of nuts- you know one of them "holy roller churches" one that most catholics recoil from because we are tought from an early age it is not right... The main pastor was an ex catholic boy from an italian family with six boys .. we have alot of "ex catholic" and other denominations here" ... I will share a few things that may help..


There is no "perfect church" if there was as soon as you or I would show up it could not be perfect...

Go to a church where the bible is tought- not only preached- open your heart and it WILL change your life...

Realize the goal is to get closer top God... you may be "offended" if the sermon mentions living in sin but realize it is biblical- now for someone to beat you up over it is not God's heart. There are several examples of Jesus accepting sinners of that nature... He only says to change... sooner may be better but it can take time. at our church we accept people with all sorts of stuff, the closest to an official "snub" is if known you will not be allowed to work as a volunteer representing the church... we love you not the sin. If you go somewhere and an individual messses with you goto the staff and find out. It very well may be one of those imperfect people trying to represent the church and THEY need to be corrected.

Dude- NONE of us is perfect and if your issues are a bit more obvious - it is not a bigger spiritual deal than others. God loves you RIGHT NOW... if you or I wait till we are perfect or know enough we will never start

Realize you correct your kids and love them- sometime we do tell our kids something they don't want to hear. We are Gods Kids and we WILL hear things from Him that we will need to work on. I tell you this. If you are convicted by God or His word- He will empower you to make those changes. If I or another "christian" tell you to quit something or another and it is not truly inspired by God there is no help other than the ocasional encouragement- or nagg it will frustrate you.. I know from experience

When I started to get serious the "giving thing" was something I really got madd at- I mean look at all the crooks that were stealin in the name of Jesus... The most freeing thing to happen to me is differentiating between giving to God and man. If I truly feel led to help or give... I give to that situation.. in the name of God or to Him If the reciepient mis uses what I gave- it does not matter anymore- my blessing or harvest comes from God- if someone does mis use it yes I will make note of it and pray about it for future giving decisions- it may have been a mistake or a bad situation or heart there is a difference.... BTW I now know that I know for I have experienced it time and time again... YOU CAN"T OUT GIVE GOD!!!!!!!!

I know from experience God will be as real as we let Him be in our lives. I would have bet everything I own that I would not be going to jails as I did just last night sharing God , singing in a choir in front of a thousand,teaching kids,adults, walking in projects at night without fear and even being "respected" by the local thugs for what we do for thier kids,workin in soup kitchens,talkin one one one- heck even talkin of Him on the net today for/with God and not too many years ago. I have been changed and blessed all along the way. I have a LONG way to go too but even in my imperfection My God has been faithful and Good to me and He will be to you... if you let Him.

I am sorry I am going on and on but if any you have any questions for me get ahold of me- I'd even call ya if ya need me too God Bless-paul

BTW my home church is www.myfaithfamily.com there are sermons online you can listen too there, listen to a few... with an open heart.
and remember
jesuslovesyou.JPG
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Hey tallpaul,

Good to see you!

Thomas Zinn
 
Asha'man said:
I'm 20 and was raised Christian - church every Sunday, memorizing Bible verses, whole nine yards. I've been baptized three times (I think - could be two), "accepted" Jesus a few times, etc, and never really felt it. For me, it was all just something I did because my parents did and they wanted me to. I've never felt the "presence of God" or him speaking to me or anything like that, like people always say they do, nor have I ever seen an "answer to prayer" as anything above and beyond simple coincidence or luck.

I basically view organized religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism or what have you, as mostly a human fabrication that can be twisted to say whatever you want it to say. Peace, war, love, hate....it all comes from the same writings. Divinely inspired or not, people can take them to mean anything they damn well please. The hypocrisy and open interpretation in religion bothers me to no end, so I try to stay away from it all.

The only disconnect I have is in relation to evolution. For me, it doesn't stand up scientifically, so there must've been intelligent design somewhere. Logically, there is a god. However, I doubt he really gives a **** about the world or what happens in it - deism? I forget, and don't care enough to look it up.

I only go to church because my parents like me to sometimes, and because the pastor is one of the best speakers I've ever heard, regardless of message.

Brian
Click to expand...
Brian, as you said you were doing because of someone else then going by your feelings... faith is not feelings and as long as you keep attributing to "co-incidence" and reasoning away God then you will keep getting what you are saying/believing... and as long as you stay away from it it will for the most part stay away from you. It basically boils down to this..
Untill a man or woman is truly ready and serious about God and quits playing or trying to please another man or even his own flesh and realizes he can't or was not made to do it all on his own - then it won't work. Remember that if and when you truly get serious ,God is not mad at you and will be waiting with open arms to show you how real He can be in your life. You are the filter in what He can do in your life... God Bless-paul
 
I don't go to church anymore. You don't need church to have God be a part of your life. For some people it works, for others it doesn't. I saw a lot of people going because they wanted other people to see them there.Saw alot of folks who thought they could do whatever they wanted all week as long as they showed up sunday. And a lot of church leaders more interested in a big congregation with big pockets, than they were in worship. In the end, it just didn't seem right.
I'm a lot happier stayin home and doing my own thing. Give it some thought every day instead of every sunday. I can spend the time with family, or out working on something. You don't have to be dressed up and sitting with a bunch of other people to worship.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with going to church. If you feel its something you need then by all means go. I'm just saying there are other ways, and you shouldn't feel like you have to be in church on sunday morning just because thats what other people seem to do.
 
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