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Civilian in CPM440V!
- Thread starter thePrince
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 29, 1999
- Messages
- 829
I don't get why you would want it in 440.
Please explain.
Thanks,
John
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Skeleton walks into a bar and and says "give me a beer and a mop."
Please explain.
Thanks,
John
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Skeleton walks into a bar and and says "give me a beer and a mop."
You probably aren't getting much of a response here because the idea of what steel the Civilian should be has been covered here before. Old and medium timers come through looking for something new and then move on when it is just the same type of questions. I'll give you the short answer, you can always do a search on "Civilian" if you want to learn more.
Spyderco orginally made the Civilian in Gin-1 steel. Some sites still say that (see knifecenter.com for example, http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderc/civ2.html ). The change to ATS-55 seems to be part of the general switch from older steels to either one of the high end steels (VG-10 or CPM440v) or to ATS-55. There were people on this list who wanted the older steel retained because they felt it was "springier" and therefore less likely to break off that long skinny point. There were also comments about why do you need a blade steel with high abrasion resistance when you are only going to use the knife once (if at all)? These people felt that the knife should never be used for any utility tasks if you were going to rely on it for self-defense. So if you have a knife that you never use and therefore also never sharpen, why do you need a wonder steel that might be more brittle? Hopefully I summarized all that accurately!
Gregg
Vinita, OK
Spyderco orginally made the Civilian in Gin-1 steel. Some sites still say that (see knifecenter.com for example, http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderc/civ2.html ). The change to ATS-55 seems to be part of the general switch from older steels to either one of the high end steels (VG-10 or CPM440v) or to ATS-55. There were people on this list who wanted the older steel retained because they felt it was "springier" and therefore less likely to break off that long skinny point. There were also comments about why do you need a blade steel with high abrasion resistance when you are only going to use the knife once (if at all)? These people felt that the knife should never be used for any utility tasks if you were going to rely on it for self-defense. So if you have a knife that you never use and therefore also never sharpen, why do you need a wonder steel that might be more brittle? Hopefully I summarized all that accurately!
Gregg
Vinita, OK
I agree that a lower brittleness is more important than edgeholding in a knife you only use once, but has a thin tip. However, ATS-55 has neither exceptional strength nor exceptional corrosion resistance nor exceptional edgeholding abilities, in my experience. It therefore seems reasonable that spyderco, who happens to be the sole producer of what is probably the best defensive knife design availible, should make that knife with materials which will bring out the full strengths of the design. I suggested CPM440V because at slightly lower than perfect rockwell, it still holds an edge better than alot of stuff, is still strong enough not to break, and is very corrosion resistant.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
I have one of the older, metal-handled Civvies....not parting with at any price.....metaphorically speaking, of course.
But I don't see it as anything other than a "once in a lifetime" defensive tool. I can't imagine what difference the steel would make....as long as it does the job on the VERY rare occasion when it is needed.
Not to say i would accept one in one of the lower grade metals (hesitate to say "steel") such as J2.
And anyone who is going to use one more than once or twice needs a gun....or a change of attitude.
Just a thought.
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BrianWE
I had no shoes and wept...until I met a man who had no feet. Cheapest pair of shoes I ever bought.
But I don't see it as anything other than a "once in a lifetime" defensive tool. I can't imagine what difference the steel would make....as long as it does the job on the VERY rare occasion when it is needed.
Not to say i would accept one in one of the lower grade metals (hesitate to say "steel") such as J2.
And anyone who is going to use one more than once or twice needs a gun....or a change of attitude.
Just a thought.
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BrianWE
I had no shoes and wept...until I met a man who had no feet. Cheapest pair of shoes I ever bought.
It makes a very big deal to me. I intend to buy another one and I'm trying to decide whether or not to wait on that purchase, because if spyderco changes the metal immediately after I get my second I'm going to feel like a tard.
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-thePrince
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-thePrince
- Joined
- Oct 29, 1999
- Messages
- 829
I sincerely doubt that Spyderco has ANY changes in store for the Civilian in the immediate future.
Later,
John
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Skeleton walks into a bar and and says "give me a beer and a mop."
Later,
John
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Skeleton walks into a bar and and says "give me a beer and a mop."
dogboye
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 1999
- Messages
- 7,164
Heck, if we're going to upgrade it, why don't we really upgrade it and go to VG-10, or even BG-42.
Also, I think if you look around here a bit, you'll find where Sal has made the statement (I'm almost positive of this) that 440V has about equal corrosion resistance to ATS-34, and I think slightly less resistance than ATS-55.
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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
Also, I think if you look around here a bit, you'll find where Sal has made the statement (I'm almost positive of this) that 440V has about equal corrosion resistance to ATS-34, and I think slightly less resistance than ATS-55.
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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
Sal Glesser
Moderator
- Joined
- Dec 27, 1998
- Messages
- 11,704
Prince - Regarding the steel, what has been said is quite true. 440v would double the grinding time and increase the price of an already very expensive knive.
If there was a need for such an "improvement", we would certainly do so. But at this time, we feel the steel needs to be able to get quite sharp, not necessarily have superior edge retention.
Regarding the lock, The main advantages of linerlock is that they save space and do not defeat catastrophically when they defeat.
As far as ultimate lock strength, lockbacks can be equally as strong, or even stronger.
Our current Civilian boasts unusualy high ultimate lock strength.
sal
If there was a need for such an "improvement", we would certainly do so. But at this time, we feel the steel needs to be able to get quite sharp, not necessarily have superior edge retention.
Regarding the lock, The main advantages of linerlock is that they save space and do not defeat catastrophically when they defeat.
As far as ultimate lock strength, lockbacks can be equally as strong, or even stronger.
Our current Civilian boasts unusualy high ultimate lock strength.
sal