CJRB Pyrite California

ronaldvo

ronaldvo

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Apr 21, 2022
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I understand automatics are illegal in CA. The Pyrite is a button lock, but there's no spring to launch it open. I can get it shipped to California. Is this still considered a "switch blade" in CA law?

Close this thread if this has already been answered. Apologies.
 
WValtakis said:
It's definitely not a switchblade, but if it doesn't have a detent holding it closed in addition to the button then technically it's a gravity knife.
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Thanks for your answer. I'm seeing that gravity knives are illegal in California. This is all so confusing. So I may get fined if pulled over and they find this knife on me?
 
ronaldvo said:
I understand automatics are illegal in CA
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ronaldvo said:
I'm seeing that gravity knives are illegal in California.
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Automatics and gravity knives are illegal to carry on your person, or possess in the driver/passenger area of a vehicle if the blade is 2" or longer. But not illegal to have in your home, regardless of size.

*EDIT: I was originally of the opinion that the CJRB Pyrite met the definition of a gravity knife under California law, but upon further examination of both the knives and the law, I have changed my mind. I believe the presence of the thumb stud, combined with the closed-bias resistance created by the button lock exempts the CJRB Pyrite from the gravity knife definition.*

Now as far as what would happen if you got caught carrying a switchblade/gravity knife-

First, the chances of getting caught are likely extremely slim. And even if by some chance a cop discovered you were carrying one I doubt they would care. But if you want to know what a person in California would face if they were arrested and prosecuted for carrying a gravity knife with a blade 2" or longer, and the prosecutor really wanted to make an issue out of it, it goes like this-

First, you'd be arrested, taken to jail, booked, and be required to post bail if you want to get out, otherwise you stay in jail until your case is completed.

Assuming you have no criminal record-

It's a misdemeanor offense. You would be given the choice of going to trial or pleading guilty and accepting a plea bargain. The maximum sentence for carrying a "switchblade" in California is a $1000 fine and 6 months in jail (which typically gets cut in half for good behavior and overcrowding).

If you plead guilty you would be offered probation instead of jail and be required to pay the fine ($1000) and any "court costs". Probation for weapons violations typically last three years.

To be granted probation you would need to sign away your 4th Amendment Constitutional rights for the full term of your probation.

You would be prohibited from possessing any knives that your probation officer does not approve of for the term of your probation.

You would need to pay a probation fee. I don't know what it is now, but I know that about a decade ago it was $10 a month.

You would be subject to having your home, vehicle, and person searched by LEO's or your probation officer without consent, probable cause, or a warrant (you gave up your 4th Amendment).

You would not be able to travel out of your county for any reason without getting permission from your probation officer.

If you violate any terms of your probation you could be arrested and taken to jail, and then have the full original jail term imposed upon you (remember, you pleaded guilty to the original charge).

That's the jist of probation in California for a misdemeanor weapons violation. I'm probably forgetting something. Contrary to what some might believe, a misdemeanor is not the same as a speeding ticket. As I described, a misdemeanor conviction comes with real consequences, particularly for otherwise law-abiding people.

Of course if you choose to go to trial instead of pleading guilty and taking a plea, and if you are convicted, you go to jail.
 
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killgar said:
Illegal to carry on your person, or possess in the driver/passenger area of a vehicle if the blade is 2" or longer. But not illegal to have in your home, regardless of size.

I agree with WValtakis, that the CJRB Pyrite meets the California definition of a "gravity knife", which is considered a "switchblade" under California law.

Now as far as what would happen if you got caught carrying one-

First, the chances of getting caught are likely extremely slim. And even if by some chance a cop discovered you were carrying one I doubt they would care. But if you want to know what a person in California would face if they were arrested and prosecuted for carrying a gravity knife with a blade 2" or longer, and the prosecutor really wanted to make an issue out of it, it goes like this-

First, you'd be arrested, taken to jail, booked, and be required to post bail if you want to get out, otherwise you stay in jail until your case is completed.

Assuming you have no criminal record-

It's a misdemeanor offense. You would be given the choice of going to trial or pleading guilty and accepting a plea bargain. The maximum sentence for carrying a "switchblade" in California is a $1000 fine and 6 months in jail (which typically gets cut in half for good behavior and overcrowding).

If you plead guilty you would be offered probation instead of jail and be required to pay the fine ($1000) and any "court costs". Probation for weapons violations typically last three years.

To be granted probation you would need to sign away your 4th Amendment Constitutional rights for the full term of your probation.

You would be prohibited from possessing any knives that your probation officer does not approve of for the term of your probation.

You would need to pay a probation fee. I don't know what it is now, but I know that about a decade ago it was $10 a month.

You would be subject to having your home, vehicle, and person searched by LEO's or your probation officer without consent, probable cause, or a warrant (you gave up your 4th Amendment).

You would not be able to travel out of your county for any reason without getting permission from your probation officer.

If you violate any terms of your probation you could be arrested and taken to jail, and then have the full original jail term imposed upon you (remember, you pleaded guilty to the original charge).

That's the jist of probation in California for a misdemeanor weapons violation. I'm probably forgetting something. Contrary to what some might believe, a misdemeanor is not the same as a speeding ticket. As I described, a misdemeanor conviction comes with real consequences, particularly for otherwise law-abiding people.

Of course if you choose to go to trial instead of pleading guilty and taking a plea, and if you are convicted, you go to jail.
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Wow. Thank you for this detailed response. So technically, yes, the Pyrite is not legal. And yeah I get your point about "getting caught". I'm really just carrying to open packages, not attacking people. Great to know though, thanks.
 
ronaldvo said:
Wow. Thank you for this detailed response. So technically, yes, the Pyrite is not legal. And yeah I get your point about "getting caught". I'm really just carrying to open packages, not attacking people. Great to know though, thanks.
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*EDITED: I am revising this post to indicate that I no longer consider the CJRB Pyrite a gravity knife under California law.*

Just to be thorough, I was just checking on the issue of firearm possession while on probation in California, I couldn't remember for sure. Here it is- if the probation agreement includes a prohibition on possessing firearms, and if the defendant chose to accept probation, the defendant would need to either surrender their firearms to law enforcement, sell them, or transfer legal ownership to someone else (all under the scrutiny of law enforcement).

There is an official list of misdemeanor convictions in California that result in the automatic suspension of firearm possession for ten years, but I just checked, and switchblade possession is not on that list.

And although there is no automatic clause that prohibits firearm possession for defendants on probation for misdemeanor switchblade possession, a prosecutor can request any probation terms they want, and it's up to the judge to decide. And then the defendant has to decide if they are willing to accept those terms, or take their chances at trial.
 
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killgar said:
You're welcome.

And yes, the CJRB Pyrite is illegal to carry in California.

Just to be thorough, I was just checking on the issue of firearm possession while on probation in California, I couldn't remember for sure. Here it is- if the probation agreement includes a prohibition on possessing firearms, and if the defendant chose to accept probation, the defendant would need to either surrender their firearms to law enforcement, sell them, or transfer legal ownership to someone else (all under the scrutiny of law enforcement).

There is an official list of misdemeanor convictions in California that result in the automatic suspension of firearm possession for ten years, but I just checked, and switchblade possession is not on that list.

And although there is no automatic clause that prohibits firearm possession for defendants on probation for misdemeanor switchblade possession, a prosecutor can request any probation terms they want, and it's up to the judge to decide. And then the defendant has to decide if they are willing to accept those terms, or take their chances at trial.
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I think you covered all bases here for any California CJRB Pyrite owners. And anyone on probation. That's /thread!
 
In practice you'll be much more likely to be involintarily gifting it .er rather .."having it confiscated by law enforcement" and being sent on your way than any criminal charges. Carry cheap if in doubt.
 
WValtakis said:
It's definitely not a switchblade, but if it doesn't have a detent holding it closed in addition to the button then technically it's a gravity knife.
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killgar said:
Illegal to carry on your person, or possess in the driver/passenger area of a vehicle if the blade is 2" or longer. But not illegal to have in your home, regardless of size.

I agree with WValtakis, that the CJRB Pyrite meets the California definition of a "gravity knife", which is considered a "switchblade" under California law.
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As long as we are in the technical neighborhood. The thought has occurred to me multiple times. What about crossbar locks? Most of them do not have a detent. There is just the buttons. Pull the buttons back and the blade drops open. If so, only assisted open axis folders would be acceptable.
 
knarfeng said:
As long as we are in the technical neighborhood. The thought has occurred to me multiple times. What about crossbar locks? Most of them do not have a detent. There is just the buttons. Pull the buttons back and the blade drops open. If so, only assisted open axis folders would be acceptable.
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By the letter of the law, with an aggressive DA... I could see them also being classed as gravity knives.
 
WValtakis said:
By the letter of the law, with an aggressive DA... I could see them also being classed as gravity knives.
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That's been my thought, as well.

edited to add:
That being said, I think it would only be an issue if they were trying to heap up the offences because they were actually after you for something else.
 
knarfeng said:
As long as we are in the technical neighborhood. The thought has occurred to me multiple times. What about crossbar locks? Most of them do not have a detent. There is just the buttons. Pull the buttons back and the blade drops open. If so, only assisted open axis folders would be acceptable.
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First, I have changed my opinion of the CJRB Pyrite in my previous posts. I no longer believe it qualifies as a gravity knife under California law.

Now as far as cross bar lock knives- Based on my reading and interpretation of California law, the absence of a detent on a cross bar lock knife does not qualify it as a switchblade/gravity knife. As long as there is a thumb stud or other feature attached to the blade specifically designed and intended for the purpose of opening the knife, and as long as there is resistance that must be overcome when utilizing that thumb stud or feature, then the knife does not meet the definition of a switchblade/gravity knife.

If a knife with a cross bar lock had no thumb stud or similar feature present, then the fact that the blade could open under it's own weight when the lock was pulled back could qualify it as a switchblade/gravity knife. But the presence of the thumb stud, combined with some form of closed-bias resistance, in my opinion exempts the knife from the switchblade/gravity knife definition.

The detent is only one form of resistance that holds a knife closed. California law accepts any mechanism that creates a biased towards the closed position.

I've never seen or heard of a case where a person was prosecuted under the switchblade/gravity knife law in California for carrying a knife with a cross bar lock. I would imagine if such a prosecution had occurred, Kniferights would have something to say about it since they played a major part in writing California's switchblade exemptions.

Here is the applicable statute- https://www.leginfo.legislature.ca....aySection.xhtml?sectionNum=17235.&lawCode=PEN


.
 
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killgar said:
Here is the applicable statute- https://www.leginfo.legislature.ca....aySection.xhtml?sectionNum=17235.&lawCode=PEN
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The problem is, the first sentence says it definitely is "and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever."

While the second sentence says it isn't because it has a thumbstud and a bias towards closure, but that bias towards closure disappears if you actuate the lockbar...I still consider it a gray area.
 
which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever.
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It's a switch blade if you can open it by disengaging the lock and the blade drops open.,

Switchblade knife” does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
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Not a switch blade if it can be opened by thumb pressure applied to the blade or to a thumb stud, as long as there is resistance which must be overcome.

I still think a manual axis lock falls into the switch blade category. Once you disengage the lock, the mechanical resistance disappears and the blade drops open.

Safer not to carry an axis lock if you are up to something nefarious. But I can't see it being an issue if there is no other issue which would draw the attention of the constabulary.

An interesting conversation. And I thank you both.
 
Cold Steel's Tri-Ad Lock folding knives have a great bias towards closure. Lift the blade an inch or so on a closed knife and let it go. You will see it snap back towards the closed position every time. The addition of a thumbstud for one handed opening meets California's legal definition of what isn't a switchblade on multiple levels per pc17235. But the coppers seem to think that if they can wrist flick a closed knife into the open and locked position that it is a switchblade.

I was stopped at gun point simply walking down the street minding my own business. A pat down search revealed two Cold Steel knives on my person. The officers wrist flicked them multiple times. They were going to do me a favor and simply confiscate my knives. When I asked for a property receipt they became agitated, placing me under arrest for possession of two switchblades.

I hired an attorney and fought the charges in court. It was the courts opinion that the portion of the law regarding a bias towards closure was vague and not clearly defined aka a grey area. It's crystal god damned clear to anybody that reads, writes and speaks English. So I took a plea deal for disturbing the peace and two years of court probation, no knives for two years yada yada!

Lessons learned. Never carry any knife that you aren't willing to surrender to the authorities. When and if they decide to take your lawfully owned property simply let them. It's easier and cheaper than the alternative.
 
Frisco Felon said:
Cold Steel's Tri-Ad Lock folding knives have a great bias towards closure. Lift the blade an inch or so on a closed knife and let it go. You will see it snap back towards the closed position every time. The addition of a thumbstud for one handed opening meets California's legal definition of what isn't a switchblade on multiple levels per pc17235. But the coppers seem to think that if they can wrist flick a closed knife into the open and locked position that it is a switchblade.

I was stopped at gun point simply walking down the street minding my own business. A pat down search revealed two Cold Steel knives on my person. The officers wrist flicked them multiple times. They were going to do me a favor and simply confiscate my knives. When I asked for a property receipt they became agitated, placing me under arrest for possession of two switchblades.

I hired an attorney and fought the charges in court. It was the courts opinion that the portion of the law regarding a bias towards closure was vague and not clearly defined aka a grey area. It's crystal god damned clear to anybody that reads, writes and speaks English. So I took a plea deal for disturbing the peace and two years of court probation, no knives for two years yada yada!

Lessons learned. Never carry any knife that you aren't willing to surrender to the authorities. When and if they decide to take your lawfully owned property simply let them. It's easier and cheaper than the alternative.
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That is horrifying!
 
Hashishiin said:
That is horrifying!
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It's more heartbreaking than it is horrifying. I figured in the end that I would be vindicated once I had my day in court. The law is very clear with what is and isn't a switchblade but nobody seemed to care about that. The officers lied in their report about how they made contact with me saying it was a consensual encounter. They forgot to mention drawing and pointing weapons and the 4 additional back up officers that arrived on scene. Life is often not fair but don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining!
 
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