cKc Warrior 2 Preview!!

Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mFpnfpDTNQ&feature=channel_video_title

Kyley Harris is making me this absolutely amazing short sword. His designs are incredible and I've yet to come across a maker who produces knives which perform as well as his utility knives over such a wide range of tasks. I am not inexperienced with high end customs, as most people seem to automatically assume when I say this. I've handed and owned plenty of customs from the "big name" makers.

Kyley's knives may not look like they're designed for an aardvark hand (That seems to be what's in style these days), but they are amazingly good performers. A great deal of attention is given to the physics of all of his knives. Things like balance, mass distribution, center of percussion, etc are all optimized in each design. The potential given by the weight of each of Kyley's knives is optimized. Weight is never added in order to obtain better chopping performance, for example. Instead, the design of the knife is optimized to give the same performance as a heavier knife in a lighter package, or the same weight as another knife, but with more blade length. The longer the blade, the higher the velocity will be at the blade tip for a given arm velocity. Anyway, the end result of all of these considerations is incredible comfort in use due to extremely low levels of vibration being transmitted to your hand, extreme ease of maneuvering the knife and ridiculously good, optimized performance. You will be disappointed in most of your other knives after handling his.

His handles are designed to PROPERLY fit as wide a range of hand sizes as possible, unlike the vast majority of production and custom knife makers out there. The handles are designed to work well in every grip the knife will be used in. For example, his utility knives are all capable of being comfortably and safely used in essentially every possible grip. This allows the user to let the knife do the work for them by using grips like the chest lever grip. The fighters, like this Warrior 2, are completely designed around the fighting application and there is nothing superficial added to them. There are no curves for the sake of curves like you see so often on knives these days. Every aspect of the knife has a function.

Kyley also uses zero convex grinds on all of his knives. I'm finding that this type of grind outperforms all others in nearly every way. The exception being specialty grinds for specialty applications. But for all around work, I've yet to find a grind that outperforms a zero convex grind. I've got zero flat chisel grinds, single sided hollow grinds, full flat v grinds, saber v grinds, hollow v grinds, "scandi" grinds, etc. None of them perform as well as a zero convex over a wide range of cutting media. The zero convex also holds an edge better than any of these other grinds for a given steel and a given edge angle.

Yeah, many people will say I'm making tall claims. But until you experience a cKc knife, you simply will not be able to understand just how good knife performance, efficiency and comfort can get. There are knives like Phil Wilson's, which can perform very well, but they are also extremely hard and extremely thin. Kyley's knives obtain excellent performance with more user friendly steels (Important when in the field) and much stronger edges. The entire knife will be stronger than a knife like a Phil Wilson fillet knife, as even Wilson himself states that his super thin fillet knives should not contact bone, for example. The zero convex grind will allow a stronger edge than a similar performing flat grind with a secondary bevel. Kyley's zero convex edges are also far more easy to maintain than knives with secondary bevels in my experience.
 
Last edited:
This thread makes me think of the saying;
"a picture is worth a thousand words".

I bet they are really good knifes.
Sure would be nice to see what you are talking about.
 
." There are knives like Phil Wilson's, which can perform very well, but they are also extremely hard and extremely thin. Kyle’s knives obtain excellent performance with more user friendly steels (Important when in the field) and much stronger edges. The entire knife will be stronger than a knife like a Phil Wilson fillet knife, as even Wilson himself states that his super thin fillet knives should not contact bone, for example. The zero convex grind will allow a stronger edge than a similar performing flat grind with a secondary bevel. Kyle’s zero convex edges are also far easier to maintain than knives with secondary bevels in my experience.”


Sir, several forum members called my attention to your post above. I have to respond to what you have written. I have to ask--- do you have one of my knives-- do you have a fillet knife made by me? When and where did I say that my knives should not contact bone?--- I have said—many times ---that due to the thin nature-- and that I do tend to push the hardness envelope, that I do not recommend prying or twisting or chopping around bones ---or any material for that matter. I am not the only maker who gives this advice and I think it makes sense. Every time I go fishing and come back with a catch to fillet I cut through bones. That is what a fillet knife does. Even on fish like Striped Bass who have very heavy bones behind the head. I use my own knives and others who have my fillet knives give me similar feedback. Of the estimated 200 to 300 fillet knives I have out there I have had only a few returned due to blade damage. I have repaired all of these at no cost. Some was due to obvious abuse and some hard to tell. Sometimes knives are lent to those who do not use them as they should. I have used my fillet knives as boning knives on big game. Plenty of contact there on large bones. I do not try to pry apart a joint or cut bone, there is no need for that. A good fillet knife will work around and against a bone with no damage. You started out talking about a sword and then used my fillet knives for comparison. This does not make sense. We need to compare apples to apples. I do not make swords but can make knives with a variety of steels and thicker grinds and lower hardness if requested. It is a matter of the best steel and construction for the application. That is what custom knives are all about. Don’t want to sound cranky here, just to set the record straight when some on choses to quote, or misquote me. PHIL
 
Well said Phil. I wasn't the only one scratching my head thinking sword versus fillet knife...huh? That's like comparing an m16 to a 1911. Yes, both shoot bullets, but that's about it.
 
I liked Kyle's tour of the Svord factory in New Zealand. They operate on a "we do everything here" kind of mentality that use to be the American motto. Kyle is obviously a fan of the man in charge at Svord. His jewel encrusted sword so epitomizes what the origin of the craft was about, making exceptional blades for the upper classes except in today's world makers can make for themselves and aren't doing it for any king or lord. Although I'm sure any duke would pay handsomely for that one. Kyle obviously has good makers around him from which to borrow from and I look forward to seeing his new pieces.
 
Thanks Mindsmirror for the compliments.. You are the master of controversy and I bow to you :)

Phil, you dont sound cranky.. just fair as a maker should be. I wont defend, agree, or disagree with the opinions of another. We each have our right to an opinion and the mileage will vary.. I've been told on many number of occasions that I should attempt to get on your lengthy queue to try one of your fine cutting tools. Reading this post that I was linked to, I cant say that I feel there was an intent to slight your knives any more than someone posting saying that a busse is much stronger than one of my knives because its edge is 3 times as thick. Horses for courses.

Mindsmirror appreciates my knives and their value, and for that I'm thankful and it surely wont need to lead into a maker vs maker debate.

But what I will say in good humor to everyone that Quoted Mindsmirror is that I am not sure how my name went from Kyley, to Kyle in all the quotes.. because if we are misquoting then I'd prefer its anything except my name.. lol..

FYTrig. I'm glad you liked the tour of Svords shop. Bryan is a good guy and makes a good knife for a decent price, and I love to support him as a NZ'er making knives in a world market.. But I would like to say this.. The video was done because I am the Web Admin of the Svord website.. I have not, and never will receive instruction from Svord in the art of knifemaking.. our philosophies vary greatly when it comes to knives, and I've never had any knife making training or assistance from anyone. What I do is 100% from myself, and from observation and discussion online. Some makers love to share their work, and train and help people.. we see it all the time here.. and for many americans there is a maker not far away willing to lend some guidance.. Svord is more a production company.. he doesn't tend to lend out or share knifemaking knowledge as its core to his business. I took and love the convex grind approach because I've used Svord most of my life before making my own.. and I just love convex versatility.

What I can say is that the greatest influence in my knifemaking outside of my designs is the art of heattreating.. something I do not do myself, and have no interest doing. I am lucky to have a team close to me with a leader that is a master of the craft of treating steel and has imparted a huge amount of knowledge to me.. and they are the reason my knives have the ability to perform so well. I'm grateful for that.
 
Hmm, sorry if I am wrong, I was taking my information concerning Phil Wilson's knives directly from his own website. I will clarify some of this below in further detail. Also, I noticed that a bit of quoted text from what "I" had supposedly said contained a misspelled version of Kyley's name, which raises a bit of a red flag concerning the accuracy of said quote. Was something altered or redacted?

I can assure you I've made nothing up. I will not make a claim I can't back up with some kind of evidence. Here is Phil Wilson's very own website and I will quote an exact statement from that site directly below the link (Go to the Edge Geometry section).

http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/about.htm

EDGE GEOMETRY

Many knives are constructed with a thick section at the cutting edge because they have to be built for the hands of an inexperienced user. This makes them somewhat clumsy and hard to sharpen. I elect to trust the user to exercise enough common sense to not abuse the blade. I can therefore grind to a very thin edge. Fillet knives are finished to about 0.010 inch and hunters about 0.010 to 0.015 inch. This allows for very easy sharpening because only a small amount of metal needs to be removed to renew the cutting edge. In fact they will almost cut before they are sharpened. This thin section does however require some care during use. It will hold up very well when used for filleting fish, field dressing and skinning, and normal kitchen and butcher work but is not intended for chopping or prying around bones. A saw or cleaver is best suited for this type of work, and they are much less expensive than a custom knife.

So, I know he says "chopping or prying" and perhaps my statement was overly generalized or at least not specific enough, however, the following sentence mentions a saw and a cleaver. Now, you don't chop or pry with a saw, you use it to saw through (ie - cut) bone. The only reason it would be mentioned is if there was an implication that the knife should not be used on bone and I would totally agree with that sentiment. I would never use a fillet knife like his on bone. Keep in mind, I'm simply saying that the fillet knife is not intended to deal with hitting bone. I used the word "contacting" instead of "hitting" but I feel the vast majority of knife users are aware that you can set a knife down on a piece of bone without damaging it. By contacting, I mean hitting bone during the course of cutting. You would surely want to take care not to do this in my opinion. Obviously there are varying degrees of "contacting," but I assumed it was simple enough to grasp that I was referring to an impact rather than lightly laying a knife down on a bone. Clearly there is no magical bone/knife resonance that snaps knives in two whenever the two so much as lightly touch one another.

Now, I also need to point out that Phil Wilson makes great knives and from everything I've seen, they cut EXTREMELY well. That is actually why I brought his work up, because it is so freakin' good! At no time was I claiming the knife sucks. My point was simply that in order to obtain that kind of performance out of any grind, you generally have to sacrifice some level of strength. It seems that grinds which have secondary bevels must go thinner than the zero convex in order to match its performance through various media. I felt like I explained this well enough before, but clearly I didn't.

Just so it is clear, I never tried to compare a fillet knife with a sword. I'm not sure how anyone who accurately read my post could claim anything like that. I simply pointed out that this sword is one of many knives Kyley makes and that all his knives outperform similar knives that have similar edge angles but use different grinds, in my experience. Is there an exception to this? I'd say it's nearly certain that there is. But as a general rule of thumb, I am finding this to be a very strong case and the evidence in support of the case I'm making has been growing rather than shrinking. Kyley's utility knives are able to cut extremely well while being stronger than a comparably performing knife with a secondary bevel. This sword shares that same zero convex grind with his other knives. So, it will cut extremely well and will be stronger than a knife which has a secondary bevel and performs at the same "level" as that particular zero convex grind does.
 
Last edited:
Mindsmirror -

Looks like it'll be a nice sword, but you might want to be careful with the wording of posts. You might not realize it, but from my perspective, the orginal post makes it look like Kyley Harris has made a second false account to promote his blades. PLEASE NOTE, I'm not accusing you of that Kyley, I don't think that is what is going on here, I'm just letting Mindsmirror know that it can look like that from other peoples perspective.


Just trying to help, please don't shoot the messenger.

Stephen.


P.S. I wanted to pm this to you Mindsmirror, but BF reserves that for paying members, and I'd rather save money for tools than be able to pm.
 
Last edited:
I simply pointed out that this sword is one of many knives Kyley makes and that all his knives outperform similar knives that have similar edge angles but use different grinds, in my experience.

I'd be interested to hear how your experience informed you in this regard
 
Mindsmirror -

Looks like it'll be a nice sword, but you might want to be careful with the wording of posts. You might not realize it, but from my perspective, the orginal post makes it look like Kyley Harris has made a second false account to promote his blades. PLEASE NOTE, I'm not accusing you of that Kyley, I'm just letting Mindsmirror know that it can look like that from other peoples perspective.


Just trying to help, please don't shoot the messenger.

Stephen.

Good that I'm not being accused of a false account.. lol.. because I'd hardly need to do that.. 1: I dont promote my knives on forums which is why you dont hear from me much and people on forums dont know I exist.. I'm far too busy to want to promote anything. If I had an extra 80 hours a week to make knives it wouldnt be enough. I just paid for a platinum.. not gold.. platinum account to "support" bladeforums.. I dont need a gold, or a platinum, because I dont sell knives on forums. search my posts.. think about it.. Not shooting you.. but you just instilled the thought in peoples minds that I frankly doubt would have existed for anyone that knows me or takes the time to find out.

Mindsmirrors 1st complaint was that he felt his dialogue was misread, or not clearly read.. I'd kind of agree. anyone who actually looked would see mindsmirror has his own youtube account of the same name, and that he is a customer of mine (and I clearly have my own youtube account)

To be honest.. I never thought anyone would consider any knifemaker to go about making false accounts for advertising.. what would be the point? seriously.. Anyone that read his post, and watched his video link to my video would clearly see reality. the only place i see double accounts is when there is a Busse sale in the wind.

I dont promote my work here at all.. but im not going to complain if legit users and owners of my work toot my horn..

Thanks, and the end from me.. i really hate posting in threads about my self.. its almost egotistical.. lol
 
There is a reading comprehension problem going on in this thread that is so severe that I see no point in further discussing the matter after this post. It's as though people are skimming through what I've written and are missing numerous key qualifiers, such as "in my experience," etc.

As far as the "save the world" child goes, let me point out that you're really full of yourself. I'm about done with knife forums simply because of folks like you who are itching for a fight. I'm almost certain you're on the other forum I frequent and I guarantee, if you are, that you've even seen the knives I've made and you've seen my other threads. You're simply itching for a fight, you're not trying to learn anything new. I strongly urge you to test those knives of yours against a properly ground zero convex. You know that I've compared my own knives and every other knife I own against these zero convex grinds in extensive cutting tests. Testing involving many cuts in many kinds of media. The videos I've made cover a tiny percentage of the testing I've done. The factors I was looking into are not things like which steel is best, but which knife does the job with the least effort. Which knife is most efficient at cutting? How long does it take each knife to cut through "x object" of "x material"?

You and I both know that I'm not going to be able to detail my life experience for you here, lol. It is clear that a number of people are simply itching for drama and they don't want to see what I've actually said. So, again, the qualifier "in my experience" was used and I even stated that there is probably some exception to what I've been finding out there. My experience involves buying a lot of knives and testing them. Knives with many different kinds of edge geometries. Custom made knives and production knives. Knives have come and gone from my collection and, out of all of these knives, none have performed as well as Kyley's.

That is what it means when I say something is performing "the best" in my experience. There is nothing magical about what he is doing. It is simply the result of rigorous testing and improvement. If someone else puts a convex grind like he does on a knife that has a good handle design and uses decent steel, it is going to perform similarly. It's not Kyley specifically, it's the geometry he uses. I've put up demonstrations of why I think his knives work better and I'm in the process of organizing a passaround to find out how other people find his knives stack up to the competition. I am all about objective facts and, while this may sound like some idiot who bought his first custom and is getting all excited, I can assure you that is hardly the case. It was actually painful to realize that a number of knives I had spent over $500 on were poor performers in comparison.

Again, I've even made a number of knives and I put my own work up against his. I've put grinds of all kinds up against his. They include zero chisel grinds, flat chisel grinds with secondary bevels, single sided hollow grinds, conventional full flat, saber and hollow grinds with secondary bevels, scandi grinds and I'd imagine there's more I'm not remembering in there. Lots of different knives from each type of grind as well, all of which had varying edge geometries. The end result has been quite clear for me and I've already stated that finding above.

From here on out, you will be arguing among yourselves. I'm not interested in your games, your lack of integrity or your accusations of dishonesty. I've simply presented my findings for you. You don't have to believe them. But I'd be willing to bet you serious money that none of you have tried one of his knives or any knife like it because there are very few makers out there who put together a product like his.

Finally, here are the nicest knives I made, in case any of the folks besides that "save the word" kid were curious about what they looked like. Thanks again folks!

Small02.jpg


Small04.jpg


Small05.jpg


IMG_4954.jpg


IMG_4953.jpg


IMG_4952.jpg


IMG_4948.jpg
 
Last edited:
Mindsmirror appreciates my knives and their value, and for that I'm thankful and it surely wont need to lead into a maker vs maker debate.

The best way to avoid that is to NOT single out Maker A, then proceed to say why Maker B's knives are better. That IS drawing a correct comparison and likely works to the disservice of both makers. Something the OP should consider, going forward.

Roger
 
who is this 'save the world child'?
 
Boy you guys sure know how to make a splash

First off Mr Mindsmirror you drug a maker into your thread for a direct comparison........... bad taste to say the least

Then ya wanna rant about edge geometry on a forum full of people that don't need to learn anything from you

Then ya insult a very well informed blade user and member of the forum on your 5 th post.............. really great stuff



Mr. Harris I am not aware of your work but I can tell you your client has done u a disservice not a favor by coming on here and making u both look bad

Have a great day
 
Last edited:
Back
Top