Clarification of Chicago knife ban myths and a specific question

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Hello all. I'm a long-time knife enthusiast (addict?) new member here. I've been searching for laws regarding knife carry in Illinois and specifally Chicago which is somewhat more restrictive. In searching the forum I've come across some older threads that have false or outdated statements. To clarify – Illinois and Chicago laws regarding (non-firearm) weapons are mostly similar. The following are exerpts from the Chicago Municipal Code (Section 8-24-020): Red font are my comments.

First the knives and weapons that are banned (Cannot own them or carry them): "No person shall sell ... possess,[etc.] any bludgeon, blackjack, slung shot, sandclub, sandbag, metal knuckles, or other knuckle weapon regardless of its composition, throwing star, switchblade knife or ballistic knife"

[COLOR="#B22222"]Now: "switchblade" is defined "any knife with a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife and commonly referred to as a switchblade knife.
The courts have determined that Balisongs and assisted open knives are NOT "switchblades". In fact both types of knives are sold throughout the state. You can not own an automatic knife of any size in Illinois. You CAN own a balisong or assisted open. (I routinely carry a full-sized Benchmade Barrage). "Wave" open knives are also fine.
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Second: "No person shall carry or possess with intent to use unlawfully against another, or carry in a threatening or menacing manner, without authority of law, a dagger, billy, dangerous knife, razor, broken bottle or other piece or glass, stun gun, taser, or other dangerous or deadly weapon of like character.

In otherwords, you can't carry any knife (or weapon) if you intend to attack or threaten someone.


Finally, the length myth (variously posted as less than 3 inches, less that 2 ½ inches etc.) The precise law is:
"No person shall carry concealed on or about his person a dagger, any knife with a blade more than two and one-half inches in length, or other dangerous weapon.
Note: The key word here is "concealed". It's illegal to carry a knife (folding or otherwise) in a concealed manner. So don't carry a pocket knife in your pocket if it has a blade longer that 2 ½ inches (more on this below). If it's in a sheath on your belt you're fine unless you have criminal intent. (Be advised: "intent" can be inferred by action.

The question I have not been able to answer is what constitutes "concealed". I carry my barrage or an Emerson CQC with pocket clip. Of course the clip makes the handle of the knife visible. IMO this would not be considered "concealed", but I have not been able to verify. Hopefully others on these boards could answer this.

Also, use your common sense. You can't bring weapons of any kind into government buildings. A good general rule: If you have to go through a metal detector, you probably can't bring your knife. If you are in Chicago and have to go to the Daley Center (the main courthouse), you can store your knife in lockers. They cost $3.00 which is much much less than any knife worth carrying. I hope this is helpful.

Disclaimer: The information and opiinions posted above are meant only for informational purposes and should not be construed as legal advise. Check local laws before carrying any type of weapon.
 
Thanks for the info on Chicago, as it's one of the more common questions on this forum and I hate it when people just throw out rumors.

The question I have not been able to answer is what constitutes "concealed". I carry my barrage or an Emerson CQC with pocket clip. Of course the clip makes the handle of the knife visible. IMO this would not be considered "concealed", but I have not been able to verify. Hopefully others on these boards could answer this.

This is a question that I hear constantly in all states, and sadly there is no "easy" answer as very few if any case law actually clarifies this. The best information I was able to find comes from case law in my home state of Maryland as well as several other states. In a nutshell, something is not "concealed" if it is both exposed to view and is recognizable for what it is. While us knife guys might immediately recognize it is a knife, it's entirely possible your average citizen has no idea, possibly thinking it is a pen or Mp3 player. Concealed weapon laws were designed so that average citizens would be aware you are carrying a "weapon" when they encounter you in daily life, and not be ambushed by you suddenly if you were a criminal. Yeah yeah we all know this is horse bleep and absurd, but politicians that pass weapon laws almost always have no idea how crime actually works. And cops tasked with enforcing the law have to at least pretend they believe this rubbish. The courts also generally consider cop's observational skills to be "special/trained" and thus the mere fact that that a cop spots it doesn't mean it's not concealed.

What does this mean in practical terms? If you want to err on the side of caution, it is generally safer to assume that "knife in pocket with pocket-clip showing" is always whatever is illegal. I know in New York City where open carry is illegal and concealed is totally ok, there have been numerous arrests based on exposed pocket clips. On the other hand in areas with bans on concealed carry, I swear I have heard at least anecdotal stories about it being considered concealed.

Granted, one could also argue that if your knife is fully concealed, law enforcement will never become aware of it unless you commit another crime, or are dumb enough to try and sneak it through a metal detector. And thus it's length would never been issue to begin with. If the pocket clip is exposed, a tightly wound rookie might be tempted to stop and examine it.
 
Good points glistam. I did find case law regarding consealment/visible, but those were in relation to guns. Courts here have said essentially (I'm blanking on the exact language.) it must be readily visible upon "reasonable observation". Unfortunately (or fortunately, since a lack of cases means police aren't running around confiscating a bunch of knives from law abiding citizens) most of the cases I found involve situations where there was a crime committed and carrying a concealed weapon was an added charge. There's also the issue of probable cause. If a cop stops you he has to have probable cause to search you. If the reason for stopping and searching is he saw the pocket clip and butt of the knife, then my view is it's not concealed by definition. I think it becomes murkier if you have a coat or untucked shirt hiding the handle and the officer notices the knife. The cases are clear that "concealed" does not mean absolutely hidden so that there is no way of seeing it. If and when I verify the answer, I will post it. The reality is that cops here have a lot more important things to do than harrass law abiding citizens who may be in technical violation but are not committing actual crimes. What is frustrating is that I know there are cases dealing with it, and they shouldn't be this hard to find.

Any other input is welcome.
 
Here's a bit of a twist regarding "switchblades". I carry and axis-assist (Barrage) which is perfectly legal in Illinois (but illegal in Chicago if concealed). The coil spring has malfunctioned. The coil spring is now disengaged and does not lock the blade closed. In otherwords the only thing keeping the knife closed is the manual safety that so many people on the youtubes complain about. If I move the manual safety off the blade opens. This now fits Illinois' statutory definition of an illegal "switchblade" because the opening is done with a button. (Knife is on its way to Benchmade for repair.)
 
I am heading to Chicago tomorrow and was interested in this thread. I have been a bit concerned about what I can and cannot carry. I want to carry my Emerson/Kershaw CQC-6k, but it is a 3.25" blade. The pocket clip thing has me wondering..........I also chose that knife because I would rather a $40 knife get confiscated than a $200 Emerson karambit. I would also like to carry my HK P2000SK in .357 Sig, but Chicago is very clear on those rules!!!!!:mad:

Maybe have to go with a Spyderco Dragonfly to avoid any legal issues, but I would sure rather have a waved knife after reading all the crime reports!
 
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