Clarification on other post -handle materials- Ti. vs. Steel

[mmtmatrix]

Ok, There is a bit of confusion for me asking this question:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum47/HTML/001535.html

A few things, I was trying to find a ranking [of different handle materials] purely on latching open/closed how well they would hold up on balisongs. Like I said I know its something like (low end) Zamak, brass/aluminum, steel/titanium. (One of the reasons I was trying to find a ranking was I want to get a custom and and just trying to do some research prices in conjunction with wear).

And then I started to get this feeling from everyone - OH but Ti. is harder and better than steel! Well, I am pretty sure that the Rc. of ti is not near that of steel, so wouldn't SS hold up better than Ti. cause its harder? Also if you don't think Ti is softer than steel check here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum64/HTML/002637.html

Ok so am I starting to make sense or just incoherently rambling? Will someone please help to set us all straight?

Thanks and sorry,
mmtmatrix

 

[JohnR7]

If you remember your ancient history, I think they have the ages divided up into copper, bronze and then the iron age. Because as the weapons progressed into stronger metal, the people with the superior weapons would win the battle. Bronze which is an alloy would break the copper sword, steel would break the bronze or brass sword and so on.

A friend of mine works for the airline as a mechanic, and he says that Titanium is a soft metal in that it breaks very easy when you make bolts and screws out of it. He said it is stronger than aluminum, but not much and no where near as strong as iron. If you have to rank it for strength between aluminum and steel, it's going to be closer to the aluminum. It's claim to fame is not in it's strengh so much as it's light weight.

I think steel is a alloy that is stronger than iron. Stainless was developed to overcome the problem with rust and tarnish. It does not take as good of an edge and is not as strong. That is why the Case knife company came out with a chrome process that they feel is better than stainless in it's strength and it's ability to take an edge.

So, I guess your progression would be copper, bronze or brass, aluminum, titanium, stainless, chrome, iron & then steel.

I am told by those who have tested the Philippine made knives that the blades are usually pretty brittle and easy to break, which would indicate that they are made out of close to pure iron. They say it's rare to find a steel blade in the Philippines.

We live 30 miles south of Cleveland, where steel was it's main industry. But they are falling on hard times because of the cheap import of steel right now. I think somewhere down the road, they are going to find that the imported metal is not as good and it's going to cause people problems. But right now, so many people are only concerned with making money so they are not looking down the road at all, to see what awaits them. I for one expect we will see the day when we will have problems with the main support beams in bridges and in building cracking and breaking, because a contractor wanted to make a quick buck and used the cheap import metal, rather than american. Iron can turn very brittle if it is not properly manufactured.

In the Bible, in Daniel's vision, you had gold, then silver, then bronze, then iron each being stronger then the one before it and shattering the previous. But in the end, the iron was mixed with clay, and everything came tumbling down. In the end, it was all defeated by stone. Which is where it all began, back in the stone age with stone weapons, before they ever used metal. Thanks, JohnR7 www.BalisongKnife.com

 

[TroyO]

I personally am thinking I will go with Stainless when I make my first one. Ti is light, but it isn't designed as a wear resistant material, it's capabilities lie in load bearing/weight ratio.

I will note, however... Ti may not have as high an RC hardness as other metals, but is that really the deciding factor?

For a handle to secure a pin longer it seems more a factor of returning to it's original position after being compressed out of place by the torsion on the handle.

Not taking a "set" to the bend formed by the torsion over the pin, and not deforming in the pin slot itself seems to be the big issues of long wear for a handle.

I don't know about Ti's properties in that regard, but Stainless is imfamous (At least, in making armour) for it's reluctance to form by bending. It likes to "spring" back when deformed.

Plus it's RC can be pretty high which should keep the groove itself from deforming. (It also work hardens quickly, which means the more the pin groove starts to wear in, the less likely it is to wear further.. this is a property shared by Ti, however.)

For me I am going with stainless, I like the weight better and I think it will yeild a higher performance, longer lasting handle. It's cheaper too.

 

[KentDog]

Malcolm, is this going to be a user knife? If so, I would go with stainless steel. It's cheaper than ti, and you wouldn't go mad if you got it scratched... or would you?