Clayless Hamon

[imill3567]

I know there is the hamon thread which I’ve read and at least one old thread on this subject but I’m interested in clayless hamons. Particularly I’m interested in anyone’s experience on using thinner stock. Obviously it has to be a certain thickness in order to get the geometry that will give you the hamon. Any makers out there who have done it with 1/8”, 5/32, etc? It also seems that interrupted quench is the best method for this. Anyone who does a couple seconds in brine then out of quench for a few seconds and finish in oil or should I just stick with only Parks 50? I’m thinking with trying thinner stock you’d really want to make a significant geometry change (eg. short steep bevel). Thanks in advance for anyone’s experience with this.

 

[A.McPherson]

Check out Nick Wheeler's youtube channel. He does clayess hamons on allot of his blades... I don't know if he explains how he does it but he demonstrates it for sure.

All I know for sure is that you have to have the right steel, the right temp and the right quench speed for it all to work out.

 

[Skiller1nc]

If you start with .100" stock and grind bevels about halfway up the knife to an edge thickness of about .05" you can succeed. I've been doing this with aldos w2, normalized and soaked at 1425f (I think, can't remember and don't have my notes near me but it was as low as I could go and still get full hardness), then I quench into parks 50.

 

[imill3567]

Check out Nick Wheeler's youtube channel. He does clayess hamons on allot of his blades... I don't know if he explains how he does it but he demonstrates it for sure.

All I know for sure is that you have to have the right steel, the right temp and the right quench speed for it all to work out.

I’ve seen the video where he shows him quenching a W1 clayless hamon but it doesn’t necessarily tell me more than what I’ve figured out already. Ultimately I’ll probably just have to experiment but figured I’d see if anyone has done it with thinner stock as I don’t like to make very thick knives. Thanks!

 

[imill3567]

If you start with .100" stock and grind bevels about halfway up the knife to an edge thickness of about .05" you can succeed. I've been doing this with aldos w2, normalized and soaked at 1425f (I think, can't remember and don't have my notes near me but it was as low as I could go and still get full hardness), then I quench into parks 50.

That’s great to hear as I like stock closer to that thickness. Is your quench interrupted in the Parks 50? Thanks!

 

[Josh Rider]

I haven’t had a ton of luck with no clay, but as stated, lower temps are key. I don’t think an interrupted quench will be necessary but a lot of the fun with hamon development is the testing. A lot more is luck and very good temperature control.

 

[imill3567]

I haven’t had a ton of luck with no clay, but as stated, lower temps are key. I don’t think an interrupted quench will be necessary but a lot of the fun with hamon development is the testing. A lot more is luck and very good temperature control.

I’ll definitely go lower more like 1425F. I’ll end up trying both interrupted and non interrupted and try keeping some notes.

 

[Willie71]

Lower temps is one way. Geometry is key. Use it to your advantage. Short soaks help. A salt pot is the “best” way to get a clayless hamon, and an interrupted quench will work.

This is 1/8” 1095.

IMG_0767 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr


This is 1/8” Hitachi white.

IMG_1597 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr

 

[imill3567]

Lower temps is one way. Geometry is key. Use it to your advantage. Short soaks help. A salt pot is the “best” way to get a clayless hamon, and an interrupted quench will work.

This is 1/8” 1095.

IMG_0767 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr


This is 1/8” Hitachi white.

IMG_1597 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr

Those are very nice. I have some W2 on the way and some experiments laid out for my next heat treat day.

 

[imill3567]

As an update I’ve only ground two of my experiments so far one was a 5/32” file steel and that does have a clayless hamon. I’m halfway through hand sanding it. The second knife I quickly ground was 3/32” W2 and has a tiny hamon at the very top. I tested a few procedures. All were normalized at 1575 for 20min then grain refined at 1450 for either 3, 4, or 5 cycles to reduce harden ability. Quenched from either 1425 or 1450 and shorter soaks about 6min. I have 5 more 3/32” blades to grind to see what’s there if anything. I believe/hope at least a couple that had larger flats due to the knife profile will have a clayless hamon. I’ll update again but it looks like next time I’ll do even steeper/lower bevels before heat treat to retain more heat towards the spine.

 

[Skiller1nc]

That’s great to hear as I like stock closer to that thickness. Is your quench interrupted in the Parks 50? Thanks!

I haven't done any interrupted quenching, my tank is vertical and I think a horizontal tank would work better for interrupting and hamon formation. However, I haven't got around to making one.

 

[imill3567]

I’ve ground most of the W2 blades now too and pretty much everyone had a hamon. One of them the hamon got quite close to the edge with most of the blade being soft so that one was a trash blade. They were all 3/32” W2 with the above mentioned HT methods. The less dramatic I left as ghost hamons and didn’t polish out. I only have one picture, which is of the file knife but here’s that at least.