clean , my ka-bar?

I'm no expert on historical pieces, but personally, I'd gently clean it up to restore some of it's former glory. Again, no expert, but I wouldn't think that rust would ever be something to leave on a knife, unless rust is all that's holding 'er together. [emoji6]

Nice buy BTW! If you do decide to clean it up, it's going to look great!
 
I get "pic not found" on clicking. :(

Rust is never good. For cleaning, with these knives, I remove/kill active rust with 3-in-1 oil, 0000 steel wool and elbow grease, but I personally NEVER buff up a blade trying to make it NIB aka "Kentucky Mint". Patina on a vintage knife is like knowledge in a person. Both take time to develop and are a natural progression. Wisdom is a whole nother cat. :D

edit: Arbitrarily tried the pic a 5th time and it worked. Must have been a flickr thing.

That's an "early" version "thick pommel" - look at the end of the pommel - is the peened tang end round or rectangular/square? The first versions were round. The second were rectangular/square.

Also, look at the backside of the sheath throat piece - the 4 digit number is the Naval Ordinance (NORD) contract number, which can be used to gauge the general time frame of sheath manufacture. Not knife manufacture - that time frame info is based on the change orders from pommel and guard changes -- thick round peen to thick square peen to pinned thin pommels, and ricasso vs guard stampings.

What, if anything is stamped on the other side ricasso?
 
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I'd just oil it and leave it.

Historical knives, you can reduce value by cleaning, or spiffing up.

I don't know the value, or the expected use for the knife.
 
There's no real 'historical value' unless it's in pristine condition or has historical providence attached to it - "Used by Chesty Puller".

Either way, ya gotta stop the rusting.

Easiest and least destructive way is to use a BLUE non-scratch Scotchbrite pad and some Mineral Oil.

Later, if you want to spiff it up, just use some wet/dry sandpaper.
 
thechemiist said:
so i bought a ww2 US navy ka-bar. its a little rough, and im thinking about cleaning it up,removing the rust and what not. i was just wondering what you guys think about that? should i clean it up to make it last longer without rusting away, or just leave it as a piece of history?
thanks

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132042177@N05/17207322238/
Click to expand...

Before I worked at KA-BAR I was the curator of a WWII museum that had over 500,000 artifacts. Generally in a museum setting the moment an item is altered (cleaned, cut, folded, etc.) it is no longer considered a top grade artifact. It boils down to this: if you bought it to use it by all means clean it. If you are worried about the longevity of the item, clean it. I have several family members items, including KA-BAR's, and I maintain those by cleaning. I won't ever be selling those items so the resale value is meaningless. That is the beauty of privately owning something; you can do whatever you like with it.

-OKB
 
zzyzzogeton said:
I get "pic not found" on clicking. :(

Rust is never good. For cleaning, with these knives, I remove/kill active rust with 3-in-1 oil, 0000 steel wool and elbow grease, but I personally NEVER buff up a blade trying to make it NIB aka "Kentucky Mint". Patina on a vintage knife is like knowledge in a person. Both take time to develop and are a natural progression. Wisdom is a whole nother cat. :D

edit: Arbitrarily tried the pic a 5th time and it worked. Must have been a flickr thing.

That's an "early" version "thick pommel" - look at the end of the pommel - is the peened tang end round or rectangular/square? The first versions were round. The second were rectangular/square.

Also, look at the backside of the sheath throat piece - the 4 digit number is the Naval Ordinance (NORD) contract number, which can be used to gauge the general time frame of sheath manufacture. Not knife manufacture - that time frame info is based on the change orders from pommel and guard changes -- thick round peen to thick square peen to pinned thin pommels, and ricasso vs guard stampings.

What, if anything is stamped on the other side ricasso?
Click to expand...

the peened pommel is rectangular, the back side of the ricasso says USN MK2, and on the backside of the sheath throat is says NORD 4723\BM Co 5 VP
thanks for your help
 
it sounds like im just going to oil it up some, and let it hang on the wall. im definitely not going to use it. thanks for the help, and if anyone can tell me how to get pictures to show up in the thread, instead of having to post links, that would be great.
 
Depending on how you look at it, it is either a 2nd or 3rd generation USN MK2.

From a "all 1219C2/USN MK2s produced viewpoint, it is 3rd generation.
From a "Kabar Manufacturing viewpoint, the rectangular peen indicates that it's a "second generation Kabar brand USN MK2".

From an "all xxxxx produced" viewpoint, only Camillus produced the "1st generation" 1219C2/USN MK2 knives. These knives had threaded pommels that were screwed on and then held in place using a slot-nut.

The first change order eliminated the threading steps and the nut. They kept coming loose and the Marines in the field did not like that. This change just had a round tang end peened over.

The second change order eliminated the "round the tang" step. The tang end was left rectangular and the pommel had a rectangle punch out rather than a round hole. This is the period where your knife was produced.

The third change was shifting the stamps from the ricassos to the guard. I believe this because I have some thick pommel knives with stamped guards. However, I also have some thin pommeled knives with ricasso stamps.

The changes were probably implemented very closely together and implementation steps overlapped.

*****

NORD contract 4732 was the first contract for the hard, green, fiber-reinforced plastic sheaths.

Your knife could have been issued out with ::
- a leather sheath that rotted and fell apart and replaced,
- a leather sheath that was lost/damaged and replaced,
- the NORD sheath
or
- the leather sheath was swapped out for a NORD sheath later, either by the original Marine/Sailor or by a subsequent owner.

Unless you have access to the person to whom the knife was originally issued, that tidbit can't be tracked/verified.

The sheath is, in general, period correct.

Neither the leather nor the plastic sheaths were made by the knife companies. Boxes of sheaths and boxes of knives were shipped to Naval Supply Depots and then sent to the units ordering them within the Naval Supply System. The units ordering the knives/sheaths would have specified which they wanted, if possible. Otherwise, the ordering units got whatever was available. One possible exception to this is that a few PAL brand RH-37 USN MK2s have shown up wearing PAL stamped leather sheaths.
 
Buy Loctite Naval Jelly, K1 Kerosene (about 5$ worth will fit in a milk bottle easily, this is a penetrant that stabilizes steel after treatments. It also removes old grime and any contaminants such as sap, gunk, etc.), 600grit wet/dry sandpaper ~~OR, EVEN BETTER~~ A metal finish pad (this works off old rust and buffs the steel), 2000grit wet/dry automotive paper (2000grit wet/dry paper leaves a mirror/satin finish on metal. You can see your reflection in it). All of these (But K1 Kerosene) you can find at a local hardware store. You can purchase K1 Kerosene at a gas station.
For this knife I would just suggest a Metal Finishing Pad (6$), 2000grit wet/dry automotive paper (7$), Use a small rectangular piece of wood to use as a sanding block as to keep the lines of the knife when you refinish it. To get that metal on the scabbard completely clean again, you will need to apply naval jelly: Apply the naval jelly liberally to the scabbard's metal. Have a container filled with kerosene enough to submerse the metal in ready and waiting. Wait 5-8 minutes for the naval jelly to penetrate the rust/oxidation. Then buff away at the metal with Steel Wool or a piece of metal finish pad. When done buffing, rinse the scabbard with warm soapy water, dry with paper towel, and submerse in K1 Kerosene for a minute and dry. You need to repeat this a few times to get the oxidation off. You can then finish the scabbard with either paper or bead blast the metal with the plastic properly wrapped up with duct tape.

For a quick fix for the metal on the scabbard, go to a gun specialties store and buy a light brass bristle gun brush. The brass isn't hard enough to damage the finish on the steel, but heavy enough to remove/buff away rust/oxidation from the metal surface as well as exfoliate pits/pitting. This is second best to bead blasting or refinishing the metal.

To fix old leather, you need a wax product called Atsko Sno-Seal. It is a beeswax product, and is good for all leather. It will absorb into the pores of the leather, both plumping it up as well as waterproofing the leather. It will slightly darken the leather, but it is well worth treating the leather at least once. You can also use this product to plump up and restore old leather washers on hidden tang knives such as the Kabar 1217, or Cattaraugus 225Q (etc.). It works to waterproof the tang. This product costs 8$ plus shipping off of their website:
http://www.atsko.com/sno-seal-wax-8-oz-jar/
To apply, smear the product liberally and as evenly onto the leather as you can with a clean sock or lint free rag. Use a blow drier on medium-high heat and heat the product until it liquefies to a workable state. Spread the product evenly and work it into the leather. Then, allow the product to solidify for fifteen-twenty seconds and wipe/buff away excess with your sock or rag. You may need two or three applications for the desired result. This product will slightly darken the leather you use it on. It is a great product and I have used it for some time now.
Hope this helps. This is all you need to know to fix that knife up, Chemist. :thumbup:
If you ever want someone to clean that up for you, I am willing. I can show you some examples of my work if you would like. Please let me know if you have any questions. I can walk you through the restoration step by step if you would like. I love restoring old knives. Either way, all the best to you.
 
Thanks for all the info everyone! The knife community is awesome. I think I know what I will do now. I am just starting out forging knives, so anything I need done with knives, I would prefer to do myself, but I appreciate the offer Zemapeli.
 
TravisH said:
Be sure to check out the KnifeMakers "Shop Talk" subforum - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/741-Shop-Talk-BladeSmith-Questions-and-Answers

And you're Welcome! ;)
Click to expand...

there is so much info here, its great. i am lucky enough to have had one class (plan on more) with an ABS Mastersmith, and i am getting monthly lessons from an ABS Apprentice smith. i currently live in an apartment, so in between classes, i use these forums to learn all i can. i just wish i knew how to put photos in the thread, instead of just links.
 
thechemiist said:
i just wish i knew how to put photos in the thread, instead of just links.
Click to expand...

Here's the Help FAQ from Flickr on how to get the image url for posting in a forum ...
https://www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157643248789263/

Once you copy the link to the image, either use the "Insert Image" icon in the edit window's toolbar or just paste the url inside img tags, like this ...
i][b]


Like this but without the spaces...
url]


And it shows up like this ...
17207322238_3e21f4de5c_z.jpg
 
thechemiist said:
url]
Click to expand...
Here's why it failed ...
1 - No spaces allowed between the img tags
2 - Must be a link to an image file ending in one of these - .jpg .png .bmp .tif .gif


When conducting tests, use the "Go Advanced" and use the "Preview Changes" button. When it works, then use "Save Changes".
 
I can't figure out how you got the image on its own page, instead of with all my flickr pics. Trying to post images made me stop coming here a few weeks ago, but I like knives too much, and there is so much info. I feel like an idiot!
 
Did you read the link to the Flickr Help forum I posted above? It tells you how to get to the individual images.

I don't have Flickr but, if you still need help, when I get back to my own pc I'll check it out.

Fret not that your web-fu is weak. ;)
 
After careful and extensive research, I strongly recommend - Do NOT use Flickr!

Geez, what a PITA! Photobucket and Imgur are so much easier!

Also, it's apparently a violation of Flickr policy to do what I'm about to show you. Something about having to include a back-link to your Flickr account blah blah blah. *blech*

Okay, here we go ...

1 - Login to Flickr and find the image you want to link
2 - double-click on the image and it should open into a full-screen window
3 - click on the 'Download' icon (an underlined down-arrow) in the lower right-hand corner
4 - select "View all sizes" to open a 'size selection' window
5 - select the size you want to use
6 - right-click on the image and select "Copy image URL"
7 - go to Bladeforums and the subforum you want
8 - in the BF edit window, paste the link between img tags -
i]

9 - select 'Go Advanced' or 'Preview Post' to verify it worked

Here's a 1217 image I snagged from KaBar's site, saved it in my Flickr acct, and used the above procedure to post it below ...

17490419608_31353e4079.jpg
 
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