Clueless About Steels

R

RockyNomad

Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
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I'm looking to replace my very old and beat up fixed blade hunting knife. Let me start off by saying I also carry a Buck 110 so the folder base is covered. I like to have one of each when I'm in the woods/mountains and I love the classic designs and stacked leather handles.

Anyway, I dont' know squat about the pros/cons of the different steels and I've found a little info online. I'm considering the Cowboy Classic knife from knifekits.com which is 420HC and a 4 inch blade. I'm also considering a Case Leather Hunter #3085 which is a 5 inch blade and Case Tru-Sharp steel. The description on their website is:

Case Tru-Sharp™ Surgical Stainless Steel – a special high-carbon steel that helps the blades hold an edge longer than conventional steel. It also offers extraordinary blade strength and corrosion resistance.

Which steel is better? Any thoughts on the lengths? I've read 6 inches is too long for hunting which is why I ruled out my original choice of a Ka-Bar Marine Hunter.
 
with knives as in all things it's all in what you want. personally I don't like leather handles due to rot/shrinkage etc. I love case folders but have never been that crazy about their fixed blades. Different people have different ideas about what is too big and what is too small, handle a couple and see which one feels best for you. You've got the folder covered very well with the 110, you might consider a buck 119 fixed blade to go with it, good knife at a good price. I don't have any problem with Buck 420 HC steel, is it the best steel out there, no but it works fine for me.If you like the Ka-Bar then by all means go for it, it might be the perfect knife for you. you'll get a lot of opinions from people with much more experience than myself but remember this, it might be right for one person and a terrible choice for the next. good luck and let us know what you get, ahgar
 
Unfortunately 420 HC is at the bottom of the list of what I consider to be blade steel. It should work for what most people need, but it is usually fairly lacking in edge retention compared to better steel types.

If you want something with premium steel I would suggest looking at Bark River knives for a good fixed blade. They do lots of leather stacked handles,
and I have yet to hear anything bad about them.
Bark River specializes in A-2. which is an older carbon steel (not stainless), but still very high quality (watch out for a few models in 12C27, which won’t hold an edge nearly as well).

Fallkniven also makes great knives, and has a good track record. For a leather stacked handle from them you have to get one of their pricier models. Though the synthetic handled ones are priced reasonably.
They almost exclusively use VG-10, which is one of my favorite stainless steel types. It will hold an edge well, isn’t too difficult to sharpen, and gives pretty good rust resistance compared to similar steel types.
 
*Waiting on Cliff Stamp to jump in and talk about how 420HC beats CPM S30V in every aspect when properly heat treated* I get a laugh every time :D
 
So if you are looking at that Cowboy Classic am I right in thinking you want to spend about $50? And you are looking for something with about a4" blade?

The only 420HC blades I trust are on Buck knives.
You might look at the Buck Woodsman with 4" blade
Our host, one stop knife shop, sells it for $40.99
http://www.1sks.com/store/buck-woodsman.html

Perhaps you would be interested in a Benchmade Rant. Got a nice 440C blade 3.95" long.
Our host, one stop knife shop, sells it for $49.99
http://www.1sks.com/cgi-bin/sc/productsearch.cgi?storeid=*1aeb3540701a048a04766bdfb88bf0

Note:Bkultra, you will wait a long time.
 
Buck knives would be a good start. I personally enjoy using Cold Steel. Having used both I can tell you that they are great knives. I also have an Edge Brand knife. It's old, but still works like it just came out of the box when my father bought it years ago. You can catch Edge Brands on ebay every now and then. Case, on the other hand, has become more of a paradise for collectors. They have some good looking knives, but the fixed blades that I have used lost an edge really quick.
 
I have a couple of knives with 420 HC blades and they have never let me down. It isn't the best knife steel by any means, but it isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

My preference on an inexpensive knife would be AUS-8A or 440C.
 
knarfeng said:
So if you are looking at that Cowboy Classic am I right in thinking you want to spend about $50? And you are looking for something with about a4" blade?

The only 420HC blades I trust are on Buck knives.
You might look at the Buck Woodsman with 4" blade
Our host, one stop knife shop, sells it for $40.99
http://www.1sks.com/store/buck-woodsman.html

Perhaps you would be interested in a Benchmade Rant. Got a nice 440C blade 3.95" long.
Our host, one stop knife shop, sells it for $49.99
http://www.1sks.com/cgi-bin/sc/productsearch.cgi?storeid=*1aeb3540701a048a04766bdfb88bf0

Note:Bkultra, you will wait a long time.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I'm looking to stay under $50. As for the blade length, I'm still up in the air. I have big hands and was thinking more like 5 inches but it seems as though the consensus for a fixed blade hunting knife is around 4 inches. I guess I could go larger and use the Buck 110 folder for smaller work.
 
ahgar said:
with knives as in all things it's all in what you want. personally I don't like leather handles due to rot/shrinkage etc. I love case folders but have never been that crazy about their fixed blades. Different people have different ideas about what is too big and what is too small, handle a couple and see which one feels best for you. You've got the folder covered very well with the 110, you might consider a buck 119 fixed blade to go with it, good knife at a good price. I don't have any problem with Buck 420 HC steel, is it the best steel out there, no but it works fine for me.If you like the Ka-Bar then by all means go for it, it might be the perfect knife for you. you'll get a lot of opinions from people with much more experience than myself but remember this, it might be right for one person and a terrible choice for the next. good luck and let us know what you get, ahgar
Click to expand...

Anyone else have any bad luck with leather handles? I love the look but if they won't last very long then maybe I should reconsider. The Buck 119 is a fine looking knife but I think I like the Ka-Bar Marine Hunter a little better. That brings me back to the potential size issue expressed on other postings regarding 6 inches being too cumbersome for animal work.
 
I love the 119 but as a fighter rather than a hunter.

I sold a bunch of stainless moras to the native trappers and they loved them. Best 15$ you will ever spend.

Barkies and Fallkniven are a bit pricey but top notch.

The Benchmade Rant bowie and the SOG Team Leader(in 440C) can be found near your price range if you shop around.

The problem with cheap knives (and many expensive ones) is they don't have a good edge from the factory. It takes quite a while to learn to reprofile and sharpen a knife properly and a lot of people who think they know how are actually making things worse.

I would get a stainless mora to start with. For that price even if you decide you want a more expensive knife you won't feel you have wasted your money.

Stainless mora and firesteel
 
Since the point about stacked leather handles having a problem with rotting/shrinkage, what are people's thoughts on stag handle knives? Case makes some nice ones. Anyone else have negative experience with case fixed blades?
 
ahgar said:
...I don't like leather handles due to rot/shrinkage etc.
Click to expand...

Here's another vote for not liking shrinkage, right here!

How about something with H1 steel? That's the stuff Spyderco puts in it's 'Salt' folders. Nearly 100% corrosion proof from what I've read. That's gotta be a good field knife feature to have. I'd personally take that over edge retention any day, but then hey, I enjoy sharpening knives.
 
Oh man, it's looking more and more like stacked leather is out. Especially since I live in a semi-arrid climate i.e. Colorado. I still really like the nastalgia of the classic knives. Dang! The hunt continues.
 
Stacked leather handles will last for generations if treated properly. SnowSeal works great, at least in northern climates.
 
Ok, so I'm thinking I'm probably going to save my money and go for a Marble's Ideal Hunting knife with the jigged bone handle.
 
I was also going to suggest a Scandi knife. Moras are just about the best knives out there for the money, and I think traditional Pukkos will use stacked birch bark if you do decide to go the traditional way.

Also, I believe Frosts/Mora of Sweden uses Sandvik 12c27 in their stainless blades. While it's not the latest supersteel, it's heat-treated well, works consistently, and stays rust-free quite well.
 
RockyNomad said:
Oh man, it's looking more and more like stacked leather is out. Especially since I live in a semi-arrid climate i.e. Colorado. I still really like the nastalgia of the classic knives. Dang! The hunt continues.
Click to expand...


Jeeze, is it too much to ask to put a little boot polish on it now and then?

Get some Kiwi neutral and all will be fine
 
Leather has been used for sheaths and handles for countless years. They're displayed in museums in countries all over the world and have been found on bodies of those recovered in the ice floes. Admittedly, they do better in dry climates and in the cold and, granted, today's synthetic space age materials will withstand anything.

The most edge retentive stainless steels are generally more brittle and less tough and less corrosion resistant than the lesser retentive steels. The tougher steels also are found in larger blades.

Buck's use of 420HC is a decent balance of toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance. They also know how to make the datgum stuff. Of course, Cold Steel and other makes are excellent as well.
 
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