CNC Advice PLEASE

Kryptoglow

Kryptoglow

Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
651
Hello,

I'm thinking about getting a CNC but am new to them and what type I may need. I would like to have the ability to CNC soft and hard materials like knife steel for liners/blades. It would also be nice to have the capability to cut shape 1/4" steel for fixed blades.
If anyone here has experience with a machine capable of the above please chime in here. I did some searching and it seems some have X, Y and Z axis and others have 4 axis systems.
I'm not a wealthy fella so I'm hoping to find something complete in the 3-5K range. Thanks for any advice ahead of time.
 
For that kind of money I think you'll be limited to a used, manual, knee mill (i.e. Bridgeport style)
 
I have seen some used haas mini mills and small fadal mills go for around 5k. All you're gonna need in a cnc is x,y,and z. For a scale you'd be, at most, making xz, or yz, moves to make radius cuts. Or just get a radius cutter to do most of the finishing work. The mill would be most of your cost. Tooling for soft material is all high speed steel and inexpensive. You can pick up used cat40 ( small mill) tool holders pretty cheaply as we'll.
 
Not sure how you would find out about it, but auctions of places of business going out of business is where you can find some killer deals.
 
you will very much get what you pay for here and Error 404 is correct "you'll be limited to a used, manual, knee mill (i.e. Bridgeport style)"
you could start with that and see about getting it retrofitted with a control later.

also you can find deals at auction houses, but they house adds 17% plus you have machinery moving charges.
our shop just bought a toolroom lathe from -

American Auctioneers Group,

of course the lathe was advertised as "like new" and it was far from like new...
 
nccole said:
Not sure how you would find out about it, but auctions of places of business going out of business is where you can find some killer deals.
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Exactly. The costs associated with storing CNC machines can be a couple hundred a month. From my understanding in some places humidity can cause issues with CNC.
Most people rather sell them at a loss then to accumulate large storage fees to wait-to-sell specially since their business closed and they're probably worried about current debt.
 
A few reasons why a good Bridgeport style mill would be a good option:

You can find them with servos and controls already installed.

Easier and cheaper to maintain.

You can buy a whole set of R8 collets for pretty cheap.

More than enough xyz travel in a very small footprint.

They have quite a bit more torque than any of the small machining centers you could find in that price range, which is important for tapping, or cutting those thicker steels.

I worked for a place that used Jet mills, brand new they were under $20k.

Best of luck, hope you find what you need.

Edit: check out cnczone. It's a great forum for all things related to machining.
 
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You might be able to find an EZ-track for that money. Basically a CNC converted bridgeport, But does not do 3-D milling. A small HAAS sold at auction would me another more complete option. They have machines that are very small intended for basement shops.
 
Wow, thanks for all the info guys.

I had been looking at the tormarch CNC's and some 6040 mills on that auction site but it looks like the auction site ones may just be for wood and circuit boards. I figured that was the case in a 1800.00 one:)

I'm still looking at the PCNC smaller model by tormarch but I'm not sure of it's capabilities... I'll try and search for a bridgeport that has been converted also.
 
The tormach 770 is a good machine, and wouldn't have an issue doing what you want. However the cost of the mill is one thing... by the time you add the stand, coolant system, indicators, vice, software, computers, tooling, etc You're quickly in the 10000 dollar range for the 770. If you want a tool changer on it, you're talking another 4500 dollars. If you're looking to buy them new anyway. Again it's a great machine, especially if you're looking for something in a home basement, just remember there's a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff you need to get to go with a mill once you get one.

Also, cheaper more hobby grade machine you could look at is a Sieg SX3 which is sold under a lot of different names. You can convert one to CNC with kits from places like CNCfusion. Then you just need to build a controller and install the motors, there is plenty of info on how to do all that on the internet. You run it off any normal PC with Mach3 installed. It is however a small machine and would have to take shallow cuts on steel, so it's no speed demon. You also won't be putting a tool changer on it, but you could build one of those for under 5k with everything you need to get started.
 
I suggest that until you're really up to speed and have more of a budget, you get one of the sub-$1k "3-D" CNC routers on the market for cutting and shaping "soft stuff" and have your steel cut by water jet, unless you were planning on using the mill to cut your primary grinds as well. (i.e 3020 or TS2518)
OTOH, if you're willing to put some work and a new controller into it, there are a couple of low cost used CNC mills on the auction site.
 
Kryptoglow said:
Wow, thanks for all the info guys.

I had been looking at the tormarch CNC's and some 6040 mills on that auction site but it looks like the auction site ones may just be for wood and circuit boards. I figured that was the case in a 1800.00 one:)

I'm still looking at the PCNC smaller model by tormarch but I'm not sure of it's capabilities... I'll try and search for a bridgeport that has been converted also.
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Suggest looking at Novakon. I have no relation to the company, and have never dealt with them or anything along those lines, but as far as performance goes, they knock the socks off of a tormach.

Depending on how much work (and TIME) you're willing to put in, a grizzly g0704 conversion, or a rf45 conversion, are definitely within your budget. Both the tormach and novakon are essentially rf45 mills. If your plan is to directly and immediately profit from the machine, you're probably better off going with something more turn-key (novakon/tormach)
 
Do you have machining experience? How do you plan to program these machines? Do you have CAD experience? That translates well into CAM. Conversational programming sucks when it comes to more complex shapes, so if you're planning to do much knife machining you do have a bit of a learning curve ahead of you.

I live in your part of the country. I have a couple older CNC mills that I don't use very much anymore that I've been thinking about selling to free up some space in my tiny shop. They are the mills I used in this old WIP thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-and-milling-a-few-blades-Picts-machining-CNC

I recommend you look around, read on some of the home machining forums and basically educate yourself a little bit, don't jump into anything. See if you can find a home machine shop that is doing what you want to do where you could spend an hour or two to see what the setup and programming workflow looks like. I think that as you become better acquainted with the concept you'll make better decisions.
 
Thanks guys, all very good info and advice. I don't have any CAD/CAM experience. Just draftsight and google sketch up:) I figured I would have someone with know how do that software stuff for me...at a cost. There's a large company here called James Tool and I thought I might talk someone from there into part time work.
So far, I've decided to look into one of the sub-1K$ 3D mills for making scales. Once I have the basics as far as programming and such I might take that bigger leap into a mill capable of doing steel and heavier workloads.

Nathan, thanks for the info. I will take a look at your thread and might be getting in touch soon.

Dan
 
I own and like the Tormach, although it is the 1100.
Owning a machine like this is fun and rewarding.
But being able to use it to its fullest capability you will need to be well versed in cad and cam.
If you do not intend to learn cad/cam get a bridgeport/tabletop mill or knee mill and save your money.
CW
 
If you are willing to pay the price for cad/cam, it is not too much more for the completed piece. Development of a product can be the most expensive part, though fixturing can be VERY expensive. But this is for production runs. If you are talking one offs it is not very cost effective to have a programmer do the work (last I checked it was over $75/hour). You need to learn how yourself. Take a class at the local community college and learn cad/cam. Will take you a semester or 2 and you will learn a lot. Possibly even be able to source a cad/cam program for cheap.
 
A C Richards said:
If you are willing to pay the price for cad/cam, it is not too much more for the completed piece. Development of a product can be the most expensive part, though fixturing can be VERY expensive. But this is for production runs. If you are talking one offs it is not very cost effective to have a programmer do the work (last I checked it was over $75/hour). You need to learn how yourself. Take a class at the local community college and learn cad/cam. Will take you a semester or 2 and you will learn a lot. Possibly even be able to source a cad/cam program for cheap.
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Very good points sir, and thanks to others for taking the time to help. There is a local junior college about 10 minutes away. I'm usually in the shop day til dark but maybe I could get away for some classes. I have a company lined up that can WJ any design I send them whether on paper or from a 1 off. I guess I just like to be more involved in anything I call mine. I probably, out of necessity will get blanks WJ'd and just work on my grinding skills as far as knives are concerned.
I do still need a small 3d mill for scales and that would require the same education in mach 3 CAD/CAM or so it seems. At least, due to the advice I've received, I can learn CAD/CAM first and then worry about obtaining a mill. Hah! My old man always says "Don't put the cart in front of the horse"
 
I'm using my GI Bill bennies to take machining at the local technical college. The instructor, like most machinists, likes knives or anything made of metal. We can use the equipment for personal projects once we've completed our parts. The CNC guys have access to HAAS CNCs and would probably be able to do personal projects if they so wished.

Edited to add: Down here you can't take a CNC class without prior machining experience if you're not a student.
 
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Will Leavitt said:
I'm using my GI Bill bennies to take machining at the local technical college. The instructor, like most machinists, likes knives or anything made of metal. We can use the equipment for personal projects once we've completed our parts. The CNC guys have access to HAAS CNCs and would probably be able to do personal projects if they so wished.

Edited to add: Down here you can't take a CNC class without prior machining experience if you're not a student.
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That sounds like the best way to get hands on experience. I've been watching some free instructional videos on youtube. It looks like with some experience and a good instructional video set that it can be done. The videos are of mach 3 and they also teach transferring cad to cam. Post some pics as soon as you bring something to life:)
 
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