This is a conversation that was going on in the Balisong forum, figured this would be a better place for it. Any finer legal minds than mine have a take on this? I do work for a legal company, so I have access to Westlaw if a direct quote would eb helpful, but here is the link to a web site with a somewhat edited version.
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/co.txt
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Blade_420, I live in Denver and just figured I would note that Colorado law doesn't specify balisongs as illegal. The closest they come is...
(e) "Gravity knife" means any knife that has a blade released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force, that when released is locked into place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device...
To my thinking, a balisong doesn't quite fit the bill, as it uses centrifugal force AND mechanical manipulation, and the blade is not locked into place when released, (IE: by the forces used to release the knife.) but by physical manipulation of the locking mechanism.
I would bet you could beat it in court pretty easy. (Assuming the issue didn't come before court because you used it to kill someone, in which case you have bigger worries.. ;-)
Any one else have an opinion on how defensible balisong ownership is in Co?
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Originally posted by MacCanine:
"To TroyO,sorry dude,but the balisong has been found to fit under the "gravity knife" specifications.
Back in the old days when the balisong first hit it big,there were several cases going on in court to see if the balisong fell under the term "switchblade".In California,it did fit the term.One of their statutes stated that "any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife,and shall include a spring blade knife,snap knife,gravity knife or other similiar type knife,the blade or blades of which are two or more inches long and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button,pressure on the handle,flip of the wrist or other mechanical device,or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever".This was taken from Jeff Imada's Advanced Balisong Manual.Shortly after that it says that "To the best of our knowledge,no court in California has declared the butterfly knife to be a switchblade under state law".
A U.S.Customs act defines the switchblade in almost the same manner as the California code.It says a switchblade is "any knife having a blade which opens automatically (1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife,or (2) by operation of inertia,gravity or both".Yet,a U.S. District Court found that a butterfly isn't a switchblade because the blade did not open automatically by the operation of inertia,gravity or both.
But,even so,the balisong was banned from import in 1986 by U.S.Customs.Any state which has a law that sounds similiar to the ones above will be very tricky if it comes to a court case.It's always up to the court to decide if a balisong classifies as a gravity knife,but it most instances (especially with lame-brained lawyers and judges) it will probably be listed as one.
We have to be very careful about getting courts to find that the balisong should be legal to carry.One mistake could send us further back than we want to be.
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*The* Lunatic Puppy
It wasn't me...It was my *good* twin..
My "inner puppy" made me do it.. "
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Response by me, later moved to this forum as it seems a better home for it.
Something I don't get, they were selling both sitch blades and balisongs at a local knife and gun show here, and no one cared. I kind of doubt the police will care unless you are menacing someone with it or something, anyway. (Even if it could be found to be illegal, I doubt they will raid my house for it, I don't have a habit of carrying any blade with me.)
I was just looking at the wording again, and thought of other tests that could allow them anyway.
"blade released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force"- A Balisong is not realeased by either method, it is released by manual manipulation of a latch. Swing it all you want with the latch closed, it's not opening no matter the centrifugal or gravitic force applied.
"when released is locked into place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device"
Again... when released it is not locked by any manner, it just kinda dangles there doing it's best to look like a broken knife. ;-P
Now, most are over 3 1/2" inches long, which means regardless of it's legality as a device in itself it may not be carried concealed "On or about your person" anyplace but at home or in your car.
(Weird twist to CO law there, you may carry a knife in excess of 3 1/2" concealed in a private automobile.)
I feel OK with having one, I never was much for following assinine laws anyway. If I feel morally justified in doing something, I tend to do it law or not (Just as I do not do something I feel is morally wrong, legal or not). In any case, with a good lawyer I am almost certain it would be found not to fit (By appeal if not in the original finding) under that description.
I will call the police station today and get thier read on it. I get a feeling I'll get a pat "Anything sharp is verbotten, anything not specifically allowed is verbotten.. matter of fact, a sharpened stick is verbotten" response, but I will give them the benifit of the doubt.
The California law looks so vauge even a standard pocket knife fits. It appears to be a pocket knife (duh) and opens by "any type of mechanism whatsoever" (Also duh). I would bet if pressed it would also be unconstitutionally vauge.
[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: TroyO ]
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/co.txt
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Blade_420, I live in Denver and just figured I would note that Colorado law doesn't specify balisongs as illegal. The closest they come is...
(e) "Gravity knife" means any knife that has a blade released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force, that when released is locked into place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device...
To my thinking, a balisong doesn't quite fit the bill, as it uses centrifugal force AND mechanical manipulation, and the blade is not locked into place when released, (IE: by the forces used to release the knife.) but by physical manipulation of the locking mechanism.
I would bet you could beat it in court pretty easy. (Assuming the issue didn't come before court because you used it to kill someone, in which case you have bigger worries.. ;-)
Any one else have an opinion on how defensible balisong ownership is in Co?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MacCanine:
"To TroyO,sorry dude,but the balisong has been found to fit under the "gravity knife" specifications.
Back in the old days when the balisong first hit it big,there were several cases going on in court to see if the balisong fell under the term "switchblade".In California,it did fit the term.One of their statutes stated that "any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife,and shall include a spring blade knife,snap knife,gravity knife or other similiar type knife,the blade or blades of which are two or more inches long and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button,pressure on the handle,flip of the wrist or other mechanical device,or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever".This was taken from Jeff Imada's Advanced Balisong Manual.Shortly after that it says that "To the best of our knowledge,no court in California has declared the butterfly knife to be a switchblade under state law".
A U.S.Customs act defines the switchblade in almost the same manner as the California code.It says a switchblade is "any knife having a blade which opens automatically (1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife,or (2) by operation of inertia,gravity or both".Yet,a U.S. District Court found that a butterfly isn't a switchblade because the blade did not open automatically by the operation of inertia,gravity or both.
But,even so,the balisong was banned from import in 1986 by U.S.Customs.Any state which has a law that sounds similiar to the ones above will be very tricky if it comes to a court case.It's always up to the court to decide if a balisong classifies as a gravity knife,but it most instances (especially with lame-brained lawyers and judges) it will probably be listed as one.
We have to be very careful about getting courts to find that the balisong should be legal to carry.One mistake could send us further back than we want to be.
--------------------
*The* Lunatic Puppy
It wasn't me...It was my *good* twin..
My "inner puppy" made me do it.. "
_____________________________________________
Response by me, later moved to this forum as it seems a better home for it.
Something I don't get, they were selling both sitch blades and balisongs at a local knife and gun show here, and no one cared. I kind of doubt the police will care unless you are menacing someone with it or something, anyway. (Even if it could be found to be illegal, I doubt they will raid my house for it, I don't have a habit of carrying any blade with me.)
I was just looking at the wording again, and thought of other tests that could allow them anyway.
"blade released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force"- A Balisong is not realeased by either method, it is released by manual manipulation of a latch. Swing it all you want with the latch closed, it's not opening no matter the centrifugal or gravitic force applied.
"when released is locked into place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device"
Again... when released it is not locked by any manner, it just kinda dangles there doing it's best to look like a broken knife. ;-P
Now, most are over 3 1/2" inches long, which means regardless of it's legality as a device in itself it may not be carried concealed "On or about your person" anyplace but at home or in your car.
(Weird twist to CO law there, you may carry a knife in excess of 3 1/2" concealed in a private automobile.)
I feel OK with having one, I never was much for following assinine laws anyway. If I feel morally justified in doing something, I tend to do it law or not (Just as I do not do something I feel is morally wrong, legal or not). In any case, with a good lawyer I am almost certain it would be found not to fit (By appeal if not in the original finding) under that description.
I will call the police station today and get thier read on it. I get a feeling I'll get a pat "Anything sharp is verbotten, anything not specifically allowed is verbotten.. matter of fact, a sharpened stick is verbotten" response, but I will give them the benifit of the doubt.
The California law looks so vauge even a standard pocket knife fits. It appears to be a pocket knife (duh) and opens by "any type of mechanism whatsoever" (Also duh). I would bet if pressed it would also be unconstitutionally vauge.
[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: TroyO ]