Coarse Stone Question

P

P_A_S_1

Joined
Feb 17, 2021
Messages
147
I currently use a coarse cyrstolon for grinding in a relief/thinning out the edge. I use it with soapy water and it works but I'd like something faster and less messy, would a dmt xc be noticeably quicker? Was thinking of trying either the xc (or xxc) then xf for the bevel.
 
I agree with Wild Willie.

I was disappointed that even 120 grit diamond didn't hog off metal as fast as I thought it would, probably because the instructions say to only use light pressure. With the two stones mentioned, the Manticore being the coarsest, heavier pressure can be used.
 
Thanks. I only sharpen by hand and occasionally so belts and machines aren't for me. I prefer holding the stone in one hand and scrubbing in circles, just looking if there was something much faster in that regards. The only issue I see is the dmts are thin so holding them looks a little tricky. I was also looking at the stones from razors edge but then I still have the mess issue.


Baryonyx stuff looks good, thanks for the suggestion.
 
Last edited:
YW

I wouldn't hold a diamond plate while sharpening a knife. Like you said, too thin.

I tried not lubricating stones for awhile to avoid the mess but found that most people and instructions advise using lubrication because it works. I just use water on the Manticore benchstone. At least it's a lot less messy than oil! I only use diamond for light sharpening or finishing strokes so don't always use water, but if not I rinse them often to avoid swarf build up.

Unless you really need an EF edge you might think about going coarser. There are many threads and posts here about the pros and cons of each type of edge.
 
MtnHawk1 said:
YW

I wouldn't hold a diamond plate while sharpening a knife. Like you said, too thin.

I tried not lubricating stones for awhile to avoid the mess but found that most people and instructions advise using lubrication because it works. I just use water on the Manticore benchstone. At least it's a lot less messy than oil! I only use diamond for light sharpening or finishing strokes so don't always use water, but if not I rinse them often to avoid swarf build up.

Unless you really need an EF edge you might think about going coarser. There are many threads and posts here about the pros and cons of each type of edge.
Click to expand...

I mounted my dmt xc to a block of wood using contact cement, works great to hold it and use.
 
P_A_S_1 said:
Thanks. I only sharpen by hand and occasionally so belts and machines aren't for me. I prefer holding the stone in one hand and scrubbing in circles, just looking if there was something much faster in that regards. The only issue I see is the dmts are thin so holding them looks a little tricky. I was also looking at the stones from razors edge but then I still have the mess issue.


Baryonyx stuff looks good, thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...
I kinda don't see how holding the stone in the hand would allow you to put as much pressure as is necessary to hog off steel so as to do the kind of cutting you described in your o.p.
I've always found that re-profiling or thinning a blade requires considerable force, blade-to-stone.
 
Working Edge said:
I kinda don't see how holding the stone in the hand would allow you to put as much pressure as is necessary to hog off steel so as to do the kind of cutting you described in your o.p.
I've always found that re-profiling or thinning a blade requires considerable force, blade-to-stone.
Click to expand...

Well I kinda go back and forth between working the stone on a table and holding it my hand. I feel I can put enough pressure on it while holding it but maybe not as much as I could the other way, idk. I like the control I have on it better holding it, feels better to me.
 
P_A_S_1 said:
Well I kinda go back and forth between working the stone on a table and holding it my hand. I feel I can put enough pressure on it while holding it but maybe not as much as I could the other way, idk. I like the control I have on it better holding it, feels better to me.
Click to expand...
I use my two ceramic finishing stones held in my hand, but unless I were wearing a fillet glove, I wouldn't attempt grinding in the hand, lol....
 
Robert Ptacek said:
Does the 60 grit manticore leave deep gouges in the edge?
Click to expand...

Good question.

I use and like the Manticore but have never seriously compared it to the scratches left by other abrasives, so can't fully answer your question. Of course, the steel composition of the blade is also a major factor, as is the observer's perception and definition of what "deep" is.

I recently used the Manticore to thin and sharpen the edge of a big Ontario fixed blade with 1075 steel. I looked at the edge through a 30X illuminated loupe and felt along the side of the edge with a fingernail. I do not consider these scratches to be deep and was actually surprised they weren't deeper, considering the low grit, but that is just my highly subjective opinion. Hopefully someone more qualified than I am to fully answer your question will chime in as I'd also like to know how the Manticore scratches compare to other abrasives.

I like coarse, toothy, working edges so am probably not as concerned with scratches as much as those who prefer smooth, polished edges. I finish sharpening at a higher grit, anyway, which of course will somewhat smooth out the 60 grit scratches.


For hogging off metal freehand I can usually get more pressure, control, and feedback taking the stone to the knife, IF I can do it safely. On my finishing stones and strokes, where I want very little pressure, I'll usually take the knife to the stone. I consider these to be two different types of sharpening. But those are just my preferences. YMMV.
 
Another plug for the Manticore if you are after a stone that will cut everything quickly and set your bevel. Yes it is very aggressive and will leave some course scratches in the edge but that is the purpose behind a coarse stone. You can go diamond as well but that is going to cost more than double. I think you can still pick up the fullsize manticore for less than 20$.
 
I never sharpen by stone in hand. I hold the knife with both hands. On a coarse stone using oil I can apply more pressure this way and hold a more consistent angle. Which helps the reset go faster. My 80 grit coarse SiC stone removes metal waay faster than my x coarse diamond. Sure it leaves deep scratches but I smooth them out.. Mess... What mess? I'm sharpening a knife... DM
 
Last edited:
I got some dmt dia folds to fool around with, xc/coarse & xf/xxfine. So far I'd say they're fast compared to what I'm using and the end results seem the same although the edges don't look as nice. Thanks for all the input. :thumbsup:
 
P_A_S_1 said:
Well I kinda go back and forth between working the stone on a table and holding it my hand. I feel I can put enough pressure on it while holding it but maybe not as much as I could the other way, idk. I like the control I have on it better holding it, feels better to me.
Click to expand...

Having started out with the same preference for holding the stone in hand, I can sympathize.

Since starting to use bench stones on the bench, however, it becomes easy to see why this is better for heavy grinding. Both in terms of pressure used and also in the speed and length of the grinding passes, keeping both hands on the knife allows for greater control while also exerting greater pressure at a faster pace.

I still like finishing with the stone in-hand, however, as I feel it affords better feedback (felt in both hands) and therefore allows almost immediate and intuitive adjustment for held angle and use of pressure. Regulating pressure to keep it very, very light is what makes a big difference in refining the edge in finishing steps. Almost all of my major sharpening jobs involve using a stone on the bench first, for setting the bevels to produce a burr and reduce it somewhat. But the very final steps always have me picking up the same stone, or a smaller one, to do the finishing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top