Coil springs and struts?

B

Bud the Weisser

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Mar 17, 2016
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Im slowly gathering things to start making knives, like supplies to make a forge, an anvil, and raw materials. I was just given 2 coil springs and a strut! Does anyone know if these are good steel? Supposedly the strut is stainless, which is near impossible to work with? I also have some old saw blades and rasps! Any advice would be most appreciated! Thanks :)

For some reason im not allowed to post up pictures?
 
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Well I think the best thing is to throw it all away and buy some good clean steel . 2 reasons it's not a whole lot of money and ya know exactly what ya have.
Good luck and enjoy
 
^^^What he said. You want to start off with known steels so that you know how to properly heat treat. One of the better steel for a new knife maker to work with is called 1084. The '10' classifies it as a carbon steel and the '84' tells us its 0.84% carbon by weight. Other examples would be 1095, which is 0.95% carbon and 1080 which is 0.8% carbon, but 1084 can be easily heat treated in the backyard with a simple coal fired forge. (look up brake drum forge on youtube...easy to build)

Now if you just have your heart set on grinding out a knife using what we all refer to as "mystery steel", realize that you won't be able to properly heat treat it which means that edge retention will likely be an issue. That doesn't however stop folks from doing it. Again, check out youtube for a fellow named Walt Sorrells whose put up several knife making videos, one in particular about grinding out a knife from an old file.

On a final note, if you want to make a million dollars making and selling knives, start out with 2 million. :D (but 1084 steel IS cheap and plentiful)
 
Thanks for the replies guys! Im not looking to make perfect knives on my FIRST go round, nor do i expect to! Edge retention, heat treat, those are things ill learn to do properly with experience. Im trying use whats readily available for me instead of going out and spending $40 on a piece of steel. Has anybody here used coil springs, struts, saw blades or files with any success?
 
You can make all manner of useful stuff from car springs & other scraps.
It fun & good experience.
As far as heat treating, its going to seat of pants process what some upsets the 'Bladetards but so what ?
 
I have used old saw blades and have had some mixed results, The blades that you can sharpen are pretty decent. I have use old rasps and files before with good success but take note not all files and rasps are good material, I heat them to 1500 quench in water put them in a vice and take something " crescent wrench" see if they snap. If they snap they are good steel if they bend they are only case hardened and are scrap steel. I anneal the files and rasps by bringing them back up to non magnetic around 1450-1500 degrees and put them in a bag of lime or put them on a large piece of steel that I keep warm for a while with a propane torch to cool slow. Cooling them slow is the trick, After a while when they cool down you should be able to cut with a hack saw or what ever you wish. Normalize them after grinding before heat treat, Heat to 1650 let cool to black, Heat to 1550 let cool to black, Do again at 1450, 1350 after this you can harden and temper, I usually temper at 400 degrees for 2 hours two times. All the Belota Rasps I have tested have been good, Hope this helps and I'm sure there are others who will weigh in on this issue.
 
Craig Daniel said:
I have used old saw blades and have had some mixed results, The blades that you can sharpen are pretty decent. I have use old rasps and files before with good success but take note not all files and rasps are good material, I heat them to 1500 quench in water put them in a vice and take something " crescent wrench" see if they snap. If they snap they are good steel if they bend they are only case hardened and are scrap steel. I anneal the files and rasps by bringing them back up to non magnetic around 1450-1500 degrees and put them in a bag of lime or put them on a large piece of steel that I keep warm for a while with a propane torch to cool slow. Cooling them slow is the trick, After a while when they cool down you should be able to cut with a hack saw or what ever you wish. Normalize them after grinding before heat treat, Heat to 1650 let cool to black, Heat to 1550 let cool to black, Do again at 1450, 1350 after this you can harden and temper, I usually temper at 400 degrees for 2 hours two times. All the Belota Rasps I have tested have been good, Hope this helps and I'm sure there are others who will weigh in on this issue.
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WOW!! Thanks for all that good info! Good to know about the inpact test gor the files, i saw Green Beetle do that a few times in his youtube videos. I dont think ill be able to monitor the the temp of the steel as im only going to be using a coffee can forge. :)
 
The key is bring the files up to non magnetic where a magnet won't stick to it and quench in water for the testing, Bring to non magnetic for hardening and quench in warmed canola oil. I usually use a scrap piece of steel to warm the oil before quenching the blade. You can temper in your wifes oven!
 
That coil spring should do pretty good. Once you get some experience and plan to make "good" blades, then you can purchased steel - just as you said. For practice forging you'll find that coil spring makes pretty good stuff. Look at 5160 HT for some decent info there. The stainless strut - not sure what you can do with that. "Normally" folks who use SS are stock removal (myself), but those coil springs will do good. As mentioned "IF" the rasps are high carbon, they'll make good stuff also. You've already got good info there. The saw blades - if they are the sharpening type, could be L6 and will make decent blades. "IF" they happen to be carbide tipped - toss them.

Good luck and have fun.

Ken H>
 
Ken H> said:
That coil spring should do pretty good. Once you get some experience and plan to make "good" blades, then you can purchased steel - just as you said. For practice forging you'll find that coil spring makes pretty good stuff. Look at 5160 HT for some decent info there. The stainless strut - not sure what you can do with that. "Normally" folks who use SS are stock removal (myself), but those coil springs will do good. As mentioned "IF" the rasps are high carbon, they'll make good stuff also. You've already got good info there. The saw blades - if they are the sharpening type, could be L6 and will make decent blades. "IF" they happen to be carbide tipped - toss them.

Good luck and have fun.

Ken H>
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Thanks!! Sure am glad to hear that the coil springs are good! Unfortunately though, all the sawblades are carbide tipped....
 
One problem with used coil springs, is micro fractures developing over time within the steel lattice. This will increase the probability of failure, during or after the making of the blade.
 
I respect the idea of trying to save a few bucks we all have been there I think. time ya spend money on gas for forge which seems to cost more then the steel you'll use and the cost of grinding belts it's not the savings we thought . Ya can buy more good steel then ya realize for less then 40.00 . Again I am not trying to ruffle any ones feathers but there is a reason everyone doesn't use old springs and such.
Good luck
 
Cliff Parker said:
I respect the idea of trying to save a few bucks we all have been there I think. time ya spend money on gas for forge which seems to cost more then the steel you'll use and the cost of grinding belts it's not the savings we thought . Ya can buy more good steel then ya realize for less then 40.00 . Again I am not trying to ruffle any ones feathers but there is a reason everyone doesn't use old springs and such.
Good luck
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Thanks! I dont have a belt grinder, i plan on using a bench grinder and belt sanders as well as my 4 1/2 inch grinder with flap wheels and such. For fueling the forge i have plenty of propane bottles left-over from a big camping trip, and they only cost about $2 each. Not sure how long theyll last though, but i dont plan on making dozens of knives to start with.
 
Hey Bud, I think the lesson that we're trying to convey here is really one of trying to avoid frustration. As a new knife maker you'll discover on your own the pitfalls of doing things in less than optimal ways. There are several ways to make a knife, including banging a couple of rocks together. Anything beyond that is a plus. You can learn a lot here about the way that professional, certified knife makers ply their craft. I am neither a professional nor certified, just a hobbyist like yourself. I think the key here is to work with what you have, but keep your sights on how these other guys do it so that when your ready, you'll know the direction that you need to head in. Everyone here has afterall walked down the path that you're just now starting.
 
Folks, I do agree 100% that buying "Known" steel is the way to go when making good knives. BUT - the OP seems to be saying he wants something to practice on, not something to make a GREAT knife with. The coil spring (hope it's at least 1/2" in diameter?) is a good steel to practice forging with.

Comment on those small propane camping bottles - Those are going to go FAST with a regular forge... OR - are you looking at one of those "2 brick" forge to use? Not sure how suitable a 2-brick forge is for forging - other folks can comment on that. Perhaps focus on stock removal using the rasps for now?

Bud, your comment on bench grinder - those are tough to use for knife making - that's what I used to made my first knife.... about 55 yrs ago. BUT - you can use the bench grinder (and side grinder) to rough shape, then use a file for final finish. With that you can shape a blade that's worthy of showing off, but it sure takes a LOTS of work.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing to remember..... have fun!!

Ken H>
 
I will give you sage advice I learned in 50 years of forging and making knives.

Bury the springs in the back yard and forget about knifemaking ... it will only lead to frustration, black fingers, and poverty.



Now, more seriously, starting knifemaking with forging on a home made forge running on disposable propane bottles will end in frustration. You would do far better to make your first twenty or so knives from steel bars bought from a knife supplier. 1084, 1070, 1075, and 5160 are good steel choices for your level of skill and budget.

Read the sticky on "How to instructions for making a knife".

Using coil springs, farm tools, and other "found" items is possible with the proper equipment and skills. It is fun to do when you know enough of "what to do", but will usually end poorly without that experience and skill.
 
Well said Stacy. Small gas bottles get ya a bucket of water to put them in otherwise they will freeze before they get close to empty. Forges love gas lots of it.
 
Small disposable bottles are not designed to deliver the gas flow for even a small forge. You need at least a 20# bottle. 100# tanks are far better if you will run the forge for hours and be welding damascus.
 
Disposable bottles went right over my head I thought 20# bottles was what ya meant by small. Stacy's right save those little bottles for the next camping trip.
 
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