Cold Steel > Carbon V

J

JD Spydo

Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Messages
4,827
In the last year or so I have really lost a lot of respect for the Cold Steel company for various reasons. But I do still have a few of their knives and the ones that I do like all have their proprietary Carbon V blade steel.

Now I am not a metallurgist but I have taken a couple of college courses on the subject. And I know that there are many of you guys/gals here on the Forum who are years ahead of me on the knowledge of Blade Steels. But I do have great luck with Carbon V although it is not corrosion resistant. I do like the performance I am getting on both my Gurkha Kukris.

I have heard that Carbon V is really nothing but an old time Carbon Steel that has been around for years and that they just give it a fancy name. That is a rumor I have been hearing. I hope someone here can set me straight on that. OH! one more thing. I had one of Cold Steels "KOBUN" fixed blade models made of AUS-8. I could not keep an edge on that knife no matter what I did. I see that they don't make that knife in AUS-8 anymore. Maybe this ties together somehow?
 
My Recon Tanto was extremely dull, my Carbon V models were all pretty good for the most part, my Voyagers were razor sharp. I still have my Bushman and Kukri machete, both Carbon V, I believe. Everything else is gone.
 
According to most people who have studied the subject (and Joe T's FAQ on steel), Carbon V is most likely 0176C, same as Case CV, and likely made by Camillus. There are a few people in the Traditionals forum reporting seconds from Camillus marked Carbon V on the pile side.
 
JD Spydo said:
I had one of Cold Steels "KOBUN" fixed blade models made of AUS-8. I could not keep an edge on that knife no matter what I did. I see that they don't make that knife in AUS-8 anymore. Maybe this ties together somehow?
Click to expand...

The Kobun is now only offered in 420, so I think it was just an economic descision on Cold Steel's part to use a cheaper steel. My AUS-8 Voyagers are crazy sharp but they are probably made by a different company than the Kobun. I hope CS doesn't decide to switch the Voyager over to 420 like they have some of their other offerings :eek: .

PS: My favorite socks are made by Railroad Sock in Grain Valley, MO. I'm wearing a pair right now.
 
Cold Steel does not manufacture any of its own knives. There is a persistent rumor, which neither company will discuss, naturally, that Camillus makes the Carbon V knives from the same steel as they make their own Becker line.

By calling it Carbon V, rather than using a more conventional specific designation, Cold Steel allows itself to change the actual steel used, even the contractor, at any time, and continue to say the knives are made of whatever they are then using as "Carbon V".

I get the feeling that the cheaper the steel in any given Cold Steel category of products, the less attention they might also pay to th quality control in the factory that makes them. But I have had a variety of their knives in C(arbon) V and AUS-8, and They've held up nicely.
 
The consensus seems to be that Camillus makes them, but I recall about 10 years ago or so when the Trailmaster was unavailable for a while because the knife makers walked out on Cold Steel. That would seem to indicate the opposite. Perhaps that is when they switched.
 
I have a very old Master Hunter. When this was purchased by me, I belive the second year they were offered a fella at CS told me they were made from 01. I purchased directly from the company hence me talking with a person from CS. It certainly acts like 01. Easy easy to stain, takes a very aggressive edge pretty easily and holds for an inordinate amount of time. Now I purchased a couple of others through the years to give away as gifts and not one acted like the original one I purchased. They would take a good edge but not nearly as aggresive as the one I have now. So I belive the steel was definetly changed through the years. keepem sharp
 
I do specifically remember on one of Cold Steel's dealer catalogs they said that the formula/alloy for Carbon V was a carefully guarded company secret and that they used a metallurgist independent of the company to check it's grain structure. If this consensus about Camillus or who ever is making their knives is true then what they are saying along those lines is just nothing but pure lies. Now I am not saying that Camillus is not reputable quality knife company but for CS to say that the metal/blade steel is their proprietary product is nothing short of total deception. But I guess this is all conjecture and as usual>> Let the buyer beware. But tell me more if there is more to be told
 
from a good source ,who says it ant no secret,the american made cs is by camillius,it used to be western,and befor that buck.the japinese cs`s are made from various japanese firms and the rest tawain and china.They aer just a marketing and idea company they dont and never did make anything themselves.I like the camillius/becker 0176 c ,so for now thats carbon v.
 
Now don't totally misunderstand me. I have 3 of their different and older Gurkha Kukri knives. I like all of them for use in the timber and I will probably keep them. My whole point is that I think they are using some very deceptive marketing and making claims that simply are not true at all. Plus their customer service is abysmal to say the least. They do have some good blades for utilitarian uses. Their fillet knives are great in my book for the money. I still have one of their Carbon V trailmasters and it is a great Bowie for hunting and hiking. But in that one dealer's catalog they specifically make the claim that they make Carbon V in their own foundry and have an independent metallurgist test each heat that is poured. Evidently that is not correct. That's one of the nuggets I was hoping to find in this thread. So far so good guys and I do appreciate all of your help. But tell me more :)
 
I have posted this before but once again this topic comes up so it seemed worthwhile to repost it even though it is the same info. I recieved this from someone in the know earlier in 2005. The info is from Mike Stewart owner of Bark River knives and one of the great convex grind experts out there in my opinion. Mike has a long history of dealings in this business and I believe he knows what he is talking about here. I hope he doesn't mind my sharing it here. It makes sense to me and is probably true. It is the first I have heard that this is no mystery though as I can recall as a youth that people wanted to know what this steel was and how it was debated.

Steve,

I noticed that you and a number of folks have been guessing what this is.

I have posted this before but it appears that a lot of folks have not seeen it.

CV--Chorme Vanadium Steel and Carbon V are all the very same steel.

This is not a mistery steel. It is not a new steel. It had been made by the hundreds of tons For many many ywears and used by ALL the major Knife Companies for Decades.

It is 0170-6 cutlery Steel...It was developed in the 1950's by sharon Steel specifically for Knives.

It is an enhanced 1095. They added Nickel--Chromium and a trace of Vanadium. it was a patented steel of Sharon.

Everybody used it. it was called by cute names by some companies --Chrome-Vanadium by others.

This was the original Steel chosen by both Lynn Thomson for his Trailmaster and me for the Old Mamba. We all used it until 1988.

sharon Steel went Bankrupt in 1988. None of us could get it and no other mill would duplicate it because the papent was still in effect.

We all switched to other steels.

A couple of years ago Case and Camillus Found a mill that would duplicate the Chemistry and they ordered a heat lot--+/_ 100,000 lbs.

Case had thier portion of the heat lot rolled to pocket knife sizes and Camillius had thier portion rolled to use for Lynn on his U.S. made knives and the Becker line.

This was a common steel and will out perform 1095. I have used it in a lot of the early Blackjacks. I still have some and made our goloks and Northwind Swords from it.

I have no idea why this question keeps comming up. All of this is common knowledge in the industry.

I suspect that nobody will be using it except for Case, Cammilius, Becker, Westerm and Cold Steel.

As I'm sure you know that Case makes thier knives and Camillius makes all of the other brands that I just mentioned.

I doubt that you will have any better luck relaying this info either. It dosen't seem that folks want the truth.

It's more fun for folks to speculate.....................
 
STR, my infor mation was also from a Mike Stewart post from yesterday on a simalar forum .I agree with you and totally respect Mike and value his advice,expertise and opnoin.
 
Thanks STR: I believe every word of it. It just blows my mind how anyone can look you straight in the face and tell the disgusting lies that are told by these Charlitons on a daily basis. I have always heard that if you tell a lie often enough the guy telling it will soon believe it himself. This is a quote from a Cold Steel catalog I currently have: It is a comment that they make about Carbon V steel>> "The final step is a precise heat treatment sequence that was developed by Cold Steel specifically for this custom steel ( Carbon V). This heat treating process is one of our most highly guarded trade secrets...... My question is how do they develop any kind of of heat treating sequence when they don't even make the stuff and don't even have their own foundry? I think STR made the answer quite apparent. Enough to make me shop elsewhere. :(
 
JD Spydo said:
1)My whole point is that I think they are using some very deceptive marketing and making claims that simply are not true at all. 2)But in that one dealer's catalog they specifically make the claim that they make Carbon V in their own foundry and have an independent metallurgist test each heat that is poured.
Click to expand...

1) How much different is CS calling the steel used in their knives one thing (Carbon V), than Case calling that same steel something else (CV)?? Or me calling it unobtanium? It's all marketing hype. All companies do it. And a great many do it to the limits of what they can legally get away with. If CS is guilty so are the majority of the companies in the US.

2) Did CS claim to have a foundry or have it made special in a foundry for them. Having it made to a specified thickness, roll length, etc would quilify as having it made special for them. And they could (I would) hire a chemist to double check the makeup if they don't have one in house.

Lies? I doubt it, just spinning the truth a little. :) It's what keeps those Harvard MBA's employed.
 
Lynn is known for being hard to deal with and very picky; nit picky to the point that some have cut him off and simply will not deal with him at all anymore from what I understand. An example of his pickyness is in the Spectre folder. Its in their catalog. Its been there a long time but not one has been sold and no one has any. The reason? Everyone that comes in to Lynn gets refused and sent back because he isn't satisfied with it.

There is some truth to his overseeing the processess of what goes out the door. I'm not saying there isn't some exaggeration because I'm sure there is but really it is no reason to just do away with his products. The fact is the products for the most part hold their own with the competition. There are trade secrets between him and Camillus I'm sure, but no different than the ones between Camillus and Western or any of the other companies Camillus make knives for.

STR
 
It's a shame that Lynn Thompson can't/won't post here, to put the record straight.
 
How can there ever be a "mystery steel" when all you have to do is have it analysed in a laboratory !! I don't think much of a company that is no open about what it's products are all about.
 
I agree Dan. I know some of the guys that work at CS read here though and on the other forums.

It seems that early on in the initial start years of CS that Lynn had a good rep and did right by people, paying royalty when needed and asking for permission etc etc. Now he has built this rep for being other than honorable and it is sad really. No excuse for some of the stuff I've been told about in private. Some of the more blatant stuff that stands out to me is hardly mentioned here. Folks here want to focus on the DVDs and the warranty.

What about the clones, the blatant Wave on the Ti Lite and stuff like that? To me these are all things I'd like to know more about. Don't get me wrong I've got Cold Steel products. But what is the deal with doing this stuff? Does he really think he is fooling anyone to thing it is an innocent coincidence that the Ti Lite works just like a Wave?

STR
 
dullone said:
1) How much different is CS calling the steel used in their knives one thing (Carbon V), than Case calling that same steel something else (CV)?? Or me calling it unobtanium? It's all marketing hype. All companies do it. And a great many do it to the limits of what they can legally get away with. If CS is guilty so are the majority of the companies in the US.

2) Did CS claim to have a foundry or have it made special in a foundry for them. Having it made to a specified thickness, roll length, etc would quilify as having it made special for them. And they could (I would) hire a chemist to double check the makeup if they don't have one in house.

Lies? I doubt it, just spinning the truth a little. :) It's what keeps those Harvard MBA's employed.
Click to expand...

Hello Dullone: You make a very good point. ON further review of the catalogs and Cold Steel ads and internet site and other sources of information I must say that I can't honestly say verbatim that they claimed they had their own foundry/steel mill. I may have been a bit off track on that one. But I will say that it sure looks to me that they have implied that to the point to where to it would lead a lot of people to believe that. Before I knew better I thought that they were a bonafide knife company which built knives from the ground up. And just because everyone is practicing some sort of deceptive marketing may be true but it sure doesn't make that company one of integrity in my book. But I do respect you bringing that issue to my attention.

Glockman99 I would love to hear Cold Steel's side of this. That is why I put up the thread to begin with. If I am wrong about my assumptions I will be the first one to apologize. But there does seem to be a lot of unanswered questions that have been raised. It is not my intention to defame or destroy anyone's reputation but I do want to know the truth of the matter and I don't believe I am being hostile simply wanting to know the straight scoop. How else am I to know who is worthy of me spending my dollars on their products. That is one of the main reasons I am such a fan of Spyderco. They have proven to me on dozens of occasions that they are a company of sterling integrity. And I think I deserve to know that these products have a certain amount of quality because there may be a point to where my life might depend on it. Thanks guys I appreciate all of the Feedback. And thank you Dullone for bring that to my attention. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top