Cold Steel Counter-Tac I

So, do you think it is a fitting replacement for the old Gerber knives or is it just another dagger?
 
tyr_shadowblade said:
Upon closer examination, I saw that the full-tang knife had an unusually thick blade which had been drop-forged into a semi-triangular shape. This will result in a wider, self-supporting wound channel, as opposed to other boot knives which will leave only a thin slit.
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So the blade is asymmetric? In regards to wound channels, is the effect this has on blood loss theory or are there medical records or supporting work done on animals ?

Targets were repeatedly stabbed with the reverse grip. Targets were horizontal, on a sturdy table, at belt level. Only significant (greater than 1/4") holes were counted. With stabs, an additional 100+ pgs of "pinhole" penetration was typical.
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What does "pinhole" penetration mean, pages penetrated by the extreme of the tip, so mm size hole? In the numbers listed you quote "per slash" is this in reference to the reverse grip stab. You might want to consider vertial mounting and consider cutting or thrusting horizontally at a vertical target. It might be interesting to see how they would cut/thrust through synthetic / natural clothing as well.

-Cliff
 
Great review Tyr! :thumbup: :thumbup:

I used to have the old Black Jack Blackmoor dirk and it had a similar asymmetric blade shape. As did an old French sword-bayonet I also used to have...

I don't know one way or another about how effective the self-supporting wound channel idea is - but like a saw tooth bayonet, the triangular bladed ones were supposedly bad juju if you were captured. And possibly against the Geneva accords (?) - though I'm not certain of that.

None of the triangular shaped blades I have examined would really cut effectively - how about the CS dagger?
 
sweet review.

how does it carry? is it concealable? or bulky? I stay away from fixed-blade carry because I find it hard to fit it to most of my styles of dress.
 
Thanks for posting this. If you don't mind though, I have some comments to add on this-

tyr_shadowblade said:
Then, I noted that the sculpted and fullered blade was completely flat and featureless on one side. Upon closer examination, I saw that the full-tang knife had an unusually thick blade which had been drop-forged into a semi-triangular shape. This will result in a wider, self-supporting wound channel, as opposed to other boot knives which will leave only a thin slit.


The Counter-Tac I is a non-utilitarian weapon designed for stabbing. Although it failed to penetrate as deeply as the thin bladed Culloden, it made a far bigger hole. These holes did not collapse due to the semi-triangular blade shape. It is a scary knife.
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I don't believe the triangular shape has much to do with it on a knife like this. It's still only 5mm thick (.20"). Maybe if we were talking about a triangular bayonet or broadhead over an inch across there might be a worthwhile difference. (but I don't have enough experience with them to be sure.) On a living critter, vital areas don't really "close up" enough to matter. The skin can move over and seal the wound from the outside, but then blood and gasses would just stay inside the body cavity instead. This matters if you want a good blood trail to track wounded game, but shouldn't make any difference in how quickly it actually dies. Blood and gasses in the body are under pressure, after all, and living flesh is very squishy.

This is also why I don't believe the blade thickness will make as much difference in penetration as having a good pointy tip. And a deeper & wider wound has always seemed like a better trade off than worrying about the width created by the blade thickness.

All that said, I don't use thrusts much at all nowadays. It's much better to use a blade substantial enough to just chop the critter in half and be done with it. :cool:
 
On a graphic note, on singular stabs, if you wanted maximal wounds could you not just induce torque on the blade after penetration? In jackhammer type activites this likely isn't possible, but in such cases are you then really concerned about wound depth anyway? On a basic level though I wonder how much of this is urban myth like the blood groove and blades sticking?

-Cliff
 
On a graphic note, on singular stabs, if you wanted maximal wounds could you not just induce torque on the blade after penetration?
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Yes, IF you have the time. I almost never do except as a finishing shot. By the time you get the blade in, stop your arm's momentum, and reverse it to withdraw the blade, the critter's teeth are already coming around. (had a few close calls already) There's no time to dally and work the blade up & down or twist it with a specific effort. I'd prefer to just thrust again in a different spot while he's reacting to the first, if I wanted to effectively increase the damage. The blade may turn a little bit on its own, but it ain't generally enough to make any difference. The exception would be the times I get a critter hung up on the blade & he's trying to climb up it to get my hand. Then I twist or lever it to halt his advance. The speed thing is another reason I just prefer a knife big enough to allow effective slashing. There's no time wasted reversing the arm & blade's momentum. And when ya do thrust, at least your hand is further away from them teeth.

Larry Harley has mentioned levering the blade as a very important and destructive tactic, but he has dogs holding the critter down at the time.

[For those not familiar with me, I should specify I am not hunting hogs, but smaller game. ]

More in line with the thread's topic though, I could definitely see this as a worthwhile method if ya found yerself rolling around on the ground with a bad guy and can't just get away anyway. Not really qualified to discuss that though.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
On a basic level though I wonder how much of this is urban myth like the blood groove and blades sticking?
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I would consider the whole idea of a triangular blade shape creating a wider wound on its own an urban legend, unless as mentioned we're talking about something wide enough to make a difference.

Since you brought it up, this Cold Steel knife does have a narrow blood groove on the ground side of the blade. By putting it here, they have reduced the maximal thickness of the cross section. Personally, I would have preferred it to be on the flat side where it would not weaken things as much. Conversely, then it could have also been made bigger to actually lighten the blade, and still been just as strong as the current version.
 
Just a question. What, exactly, are you stabbing with a knife that is trying to get at you? If you are not hunting dogs, and dogs aren't holding your "game", and your "game" is smaller than a dog, and you can get close enough to stab it...it sounds like you are sticking house cats.
 
There have been a couple feral cats, but I'm mostly talking about raccoons and possums. They're destructive pests on the farm.

I've discussed this in the past, so it may be better to do some searching if you're curious rather than take the thread too far off topic. :)
 
The triangular cross-section myth may be related to the rapier, smallsword, and estoc wounds... the latter which eventually developed into triangular cross-sections (more or less equilateral).
 
Shadowblade-
Didn't mean to put words in your mouth there. I realize you were not drawing a direct correlation between this knife and "true" triangular knives.

At the risk of veering off topic again, I thought I'd mention a couple articles that document wounds from thrusting swords. Part 1
Part 2

The fuller on this knife appears decorative.
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I concur. And I suppose that could also be a valid reason for certain design elements that get included in various knives.

I am all for decoration or pleasing lines, as long as it doesn't actually interfere with performance appreciably. In this case I doubt the fuller makes a difference either way.
 
tyr_shadowblade said:
Will a larger, self-supporting hole make a significant difference in drainage?
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To clearify, I was making a point in general rather than a contention with a claim you made. It is commonly stated that such wound types are "known" to be more effective in a martial sense, often from looking at a hole in a static object, this is in particular promoted with chisel ground blades. There is usually though a lack of actual evidence and I was just asking for any knowledge, personal or otherwise as to this general idea. The ideas are usually in conflict, for example Strider (con) vs Harley (pro) in the value of an upper sharpened edge, though they are speaking of two difference usage senarios (armor/gear on a soldier vs naked pig).

-Cliff
 
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