cold steel saya.

danroot

danroot

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Oct 28, 2004
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ok, im new to swords, particularly japanese swords. i recently decided that my first purchase was to be the cold steel warrior series katana. it arrived today and at first i was very impressed with the quality. however, something i notice is that when the blade is in the saya, it makes a rattling sound when you move it about. is this normal? do most swords do this? ive handled a paul chen zatoichi sword and it did the same thing. if this is not supposed to happen, what can be done about it?

any help would be greatly appreciated.

-dan
 
you're paying for a production sword, so the saya isn't perfectly custom-fit to the blade, habaki, etc. The Cold Steel ones are known to be tough cutters for their price range, but obviously are inferior in handling to higher priced production (and custom) katana.

Kinda normal actually for lower-end swords. If you ever get the hankerin' for a new one :D..... ask around first.
 
ok, but is there anything i can do to make the saya fit a little nicer?
 
Unless you feel like taking the saya apart, there is nothing you can do. If the habaki fits well into the saya, thats all that matters. In the old days dents were put in the saya to prevent rattling. But in a cheaper sword, its not a big deal. Doubt you will find any production swords with a fit to blade saya.
 
kaosu04 said:
Unless you feel like taking the saya apart, there is nothing you can do. If the habaki fits well into the saya, thats all that matters. In the old days dents were put in the saya to prevent rattling. But in a cheaper sword, its not a big deal. Doubt you will find any production swords with a fit to blade saya.
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More or less true, very judicious use of shims may work (keyword: MAY). However, would never come close to being as nice as having a custom saya. Good luck, I wouldn't be too disappointed, honestly many saya are crap even at the 700-1000 USD level. Some nice exceptions include Liveblade and Swordstore I hear. Never handled them, but lots of feedback....
 
something else i notice is that the habaki is pretty loose, any way to tighten it up?
 
danroot said:
something else i notice is that the habaki is pretty loose, any way to tighten it up?
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Loose how? Vertically? Horizontally? Rattle slightly or a lot? This is very important since the habaki is sometimes considered the "heart" of the blade...

If it's vertically, you will have to add spacers between the tsuba and habaki and fuchi.

http://www.ncjsc.org/gloss_seppa.htm

If horizontally, a dirty fix is to use tiny slivers of wood (and some forms of paper/cardboard) to to shim the habaki. Make sure it's wood that doesn't release corrosive oils. I'd also suggest you ask around at www.swordforum.com.

Much more people that are FAR more familiar with katana than I. I've only dealt (fixed) with iaito. Never had to work with a shinken.

Good luck.
 
Isnt the habaki in the CS katanas functional? I'm certain the handles are removable. A loose habaki would be a major defect imo. Especially when the habaki isnt just a decoration like in the hanwei PK.
 
Even on the PK the habaki is functional. Otherwise there'd be nothing holding the sword into the saya when sheathed. The problem with the old plastic habaki on that line was that they'd crack when used properly.

Either way, a loose habaki = pretty much nonfunctional sword. At least for JSA stuff. A few rather accomplished swordsmiths have long felt that the habaki itself is a mistake, preferring a western-style ricasso instead. Just because so much rides on the habaki being perfectly matched to the blade. Tsuka fit and longevity, overall tightness of the mounts, and of course the seating of the blade in the saya. In fact, it might actually be that the habaki sits tight in the saya, and your blade is rattling around in the habaki itself. Not good at all.

As to the saya fit, keep in mind that most sword factories pre-carve their saya. Once the blade is made and fitted, a saya is found that best ("best" depending on what's available and the diligence of the workers involved) fits the sword. So no, you won't come close to the fit of a custom-made piece.

Since the Cold Steel series is billed as a functional piece, I'd say you've got more than enough grounds for an exchange or return. A loose saya can be repaired with shims, but a habaki should not be. Tsukas and sayas are consumables, but the habaki is basically a part of the blade itself.
 
danroot said:
the movement is in all directions, as if its not attached at all.
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Go with the exchange. Some very slight (almost imperceptible) movement can be fixed... but only for iaito. I would not recommend cutting with any sword whose habaki fit is poor.

Also, if you can, ask around at reputable dealers, some of them will PERSONALLY do QC with you, looking through swords and some actually know what they're talking about.

J-armory has some neat stuff you might want to look at.
 
the problem is i diddnt get the sword directly from cold steel, i got it through ebay. the sellar claims that the sword came directly from cold steel through him, but i dont think that matters. would cold steel exchange a product that was not purchased from them or one of their dealers?
 
knife saber, the habaki on my PK fits nearly perfectly in the saya. By functional I was referring to how the habaki serves a slightly different purpose for the PK since the handle is permanantly glued to the tang. The plastic habaki came completely loose in one of the reviews I read and they kept on cutting.
 
kaosu04 said:
The plastic habaki came completely loose in one of the reviews I read and they kept on cutting.
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Do you mean the SFMO review? Yeah, partially because they knew what they're doing and the risks involved. Does the blade rattle in the saya? If so, it's not perfect. If not, then you're one of the lucky ones :D. And it serves the same purpose any other habaki does.... epoxied handle or not (which is just a sign of not wanting to deal with proper fit). And the habaki didn't come loose, it split along the edge side....

BTW, the ricasso would only work with a less thick blade profile, the habaki works well for the sword design. Adding the ricasso would add quite a bit of weight but who knows.... it might be interesting. A katana with a forte would make for an interested hybrid at least.
 
The blade taps the saya if I tap the outside of the saya. But it requires impact. I can shake it around and it wont rattle at all. Guess I was just lucky.
 
kaosu04 said:
The blade taps the saya if I tap the outside of the saya. But it requires impact. I can shake it around and it wont rattle at all. Guess I was just lucky.
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Certainly doesn't sound bad at all. Not perfect of course, but quite good for the PK :D. I hear the new PK's aren't too hot because for some reason they were made thinner... making them even more susceptible to damage due to the somewhat inconsistent heat treat... ah well.

if you ever get a new one, try here: dguertin.com
Pretty inexpensive (I believe shipping is included in quoted price) - gets good reviews. Not production however...
 
I couldnt imagine it being much thicker. A friend of mine has a pk and a pplus. Pk is his beater. Took him several months of chopping at branches (like an axe, not the way you should with a sword) to put a very minor bend in it. Minor enough that a normal person wouldnt see it in a normal inspection. Never damaged the edge either. I am impressed for the price, but then again I've never used a cold steel or kris cutlery. And mine only comes out of the saya to be oiled.
 
The Gen 3 and 4 I believe were good tough swords if you got the right one... the thickness helped. For the price point, don't know if you could beat it. Kris Cutlery's are very tough too though :D. Glad there's so many choices.

The main gripe I hear about the PC low-ends are the newer Shintos, thinner THAN a bo-hi... hm.
 
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