Colorado 3.5" law... I don't think we're interpreting it right.

archieblue

archieblue

Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Messages
3,157
So the law reads like this>>

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/co.txt

but the only reference to 3.5" is under the definition of the word "knife"

The only criminal act of carry seems to be concealed, not actual carry...

Seems to me that the law just wants the (over 3.5") knife out in the open, and as long as it is a small knife it could be concealed... like in your pocket..

In other words, I should be able to carry a Spydie Military with no probs as long as the clip is visible, right??
 
law says intent (why you carry) matters :)

http://www.thefiringline.com/library/blades/knifelaws.html#CO
18-12-101..105; open carry of anything may be legal, but expect to be hassled particularly in Denver. There is a hunting/fishing exception. Knives <3.5" are illegal to carry concealed with intent to use as a weapon, but otherwise are okay: A.P.E. v People 20 P.3d 1179 (2001). The knife in that case is not described, but presumably it is a balisong that was ruled to be a gravity knife at trial, mentioned in People v Pickett, 571 P.2d 1078 (1977). People v Gross 830 P.2d 933 (1992) is sometimes cited in reference to CO knife laws, but it's really a stretch to connect that to typical enforcement of sec. 102.
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Open carry is one of those funny things where you have to go beyond technical "legality," meaning there's not a simple yes/no answer.

Context plays a major part. If you are walking along a trail with a backpack, most people and even park police aren't that alarmed by even a large fixed blade on your belt (barring some state park regulation I'm not aware of).

But wearing that same knife at an urban convenience store is going to get some very nervous looks, and even a 911 call. Likewise, even if legal, a policeman seeing it will probably give you are hard time, want to know the reason why you have it, etc. Even if you leave without any arrest or ticket, it's unpleasant. And the exact response you get is kind of unpredictable, as not everyone is always up to speed on the goofy little details of the law.

Over in VA, it's even legal to carry a pistol in a hip holster openly. They had a news article on it a few years back. Some guys were just doing it to see what would happen at a restaurant. Well, the staff called the police about "armed men" eating. The police showed up, hassled them a bit, probably ran their IDs, and left without any citations. It's a matter of how much of that you're willing to go through.
 
CO has an open cary for handguns... I dont see it often, but every now and then.. But the Law for knives is SUPER vegue... which is why I am interested in clearing things up here... I'm from TX, living in CO.. The T law is REALLY obvious... it says "it is ILLEGAL to carry a knife with a blade length of over 5.5""
 
We have a similar law in TN. Over 4" with intent to go armed. I really hate that. I can tell you that I see lots of people arrested for having a knife with a blade of over 4" because the police assume you are carrying with intent to go armed. That's not to say you couldn't win in court but look at the expense and trouble.
 
Hmm, I can't find anything in the statute that makes open carry of a +3.5" knife illegal, so I think you are right on that part. The law also does not distinguish between fixed and folding, nor between knives or daggers (doubled-edged). Indeed, I could find no cases of solely for carrying knives at all in the Court of Appeals (http://www.courts.state.co.us/) So you should be good to go.
The exception of Denver, which bans concealed carry, open carry and brandishing of +3.5" knives.

Now, the clip sticking out of your pocket not being "concealed?" There's the wrinkle. I think you really need to ask the local PD about that part.
 
Laws aren't supposed to be vague.. I would think that would be the purpose of being so long and well... definite. But alas, this reads totally senseless. The major ridiculous part is that it mentions hunting and fishing knives as an exception to the definition "knife." ...which means that you could conceal a hunting or fishing knife as long as it were intended for that purpose. ...why would you conceal a hunting or fishing knife??? I dunno, BUT IT'S LEGAL!
 
I've been getting Sportsman's Guide catalogs for a long time now and the
list of "restricted shipping" products seems to be getting longer and longer
all the time.

But I finally wrote them after they started listing my home state Colorado
as restricted shipping for virtually any knife in their catalog with a serious
blade. These were knives similar to those I could buy at any sports shop,
Wal-Mart, or from many other mail-order companies.

Here is the applicable wording in the CRS Title 18 (as of 2008):

(first the definition of a knife)
18-12-101. Definitions - peace officer affirmative defense.
(1) As used in this article, unless the context otherwise requires:
(f) "Knife" means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative defense.

(the actual wording of the law)
18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.
(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or

So what does "unlawfully" really mean? As usual, the wording of the
laws is frustratingly vague. There appear to be some mitigating
circumstances. Among them are:

(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:

(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or

(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or

(c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; or

This last is interesting. Since 18-12-105.1 was repealed in 2003, there's
no way to know what was in it short of going through an old version of the
CRS. I'm thinking this might have been a fallout of when CO changed to
a shall-issue permit state about that time. 18-12-105.1 may have contained
the original wording of how the permit system worked in CO -- the
old individual-sheriff-system. Since knives are grouped
together with firearms in Article 12, and the above seems to hint that a
"valid written permit" used to be issued for weapons other than handguns,
I'm wondering if knives might be covered by current concealed handgun
permits? Intriguing question -- invites more research.

I'm no lawyer, but from the wording "or any other dangerous instrument
capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds" I would tend to
think virtually ANYTHING concealed that cuts could get one into to
trouble IF the LEO involved wanted to push it. The 9/11 terrorists brought
down aircraft with boxcutters.

So in the end it all comes down to the LEO who pats you down. I
doubt if any CO officer will get bent out of shape over a Victorinox
pocketknife. Same with the 3.25" skeletonized Beretta thumb-opened
folder I carried for many years before getting a CCW permit.

However, I originally joined this forum to ask about the legality of a
Gerber Guardian carried concealed as backup. It's a 3.5" blade, but
double-sided, with no obvious application but defense. After reading the
CO law carefully and reviewing this forum my conclusion is no way,
Jose. At least, not until I find out if my CCW permit also covers knives.

I'm thinking anyone without a CCW permit would be pretty much at the mercy
of the LEO involved. That "or any other dangerous instrument"
wording sure doesn't leave much wiggle room.

You might ask why not just carry a backup piece? To which I would
answer, "Why not both?"

BTW, Sportman's Guide admitted it was their own decision not to ship
blades to CO. Apparently, even the possibility of someone being stopped
while carrying a knife bought from them was too much liability to bear.

Pretty sad.

--Mark
Colorado
 
"The 9/11 terrorists brought
down aircraft with boxcutters."

LOL, yea right.
 
The Laws are Vauge on Purpose. So the Officers can decide them selves on scene what they want to charge you with, Just to get you into the system and Hopfully get you banned from owning firearms. You're Lucky you are even discussing CO Knife law with the intent of what you can legally carry. On the east coast NY,NJ,DE,MA. Almost anything you have can be considered a "weapon" and get charged For Concealed carry. Hopefully if it's a Big city and the Officer sees a clip they will only take your knife if they are in a good mood, but otherwise it's up to them to charge you. it's not a Big deal with Prison time, but it's a way to enable officers to charge people with Possession of a weapon at their whim. I know it might sound "Conspiracy Theory" But Many Many Laws are like that. Extremely Vauge and to be interpreted by officers on scene and DAs. And DAs will will put you through the system and give you a record. My Uncle is an FBI agent And Grandfather too. and My Bother and Inlaws are Police and they are the ones that explained all this to me. I know it doesn't help with your specific question,(Maybe it does) But I would just expect to be hassled in an urban area and left alone,for the most part, In the country. If you're in the city just carry 3.5 and under. There are many many knives, Awesome knives in that range and under. Or Move to AZ, TX or NV and carry whatever you want, For the most part aside from specific city ordinances. and it's just a ticket, and possibly knife confiscation.
 
Mark R said:
BTW, Sportman's Guide admitted it was their own decision not to ship blades to CO. Apparently, even the possibility of someone being stopped while carrying a knife bought from them was too much liability to bear.
Click to expand...

SG is one of he larger mailorder catalogs and that makes them a great target for an attorney general looking for a payday. I understand a couple of states got them for shipping knives the state had banned so they began restricting shipping to any state where they distrusted the justice system. Restriction by harassment. See stolas223's comment below:

stolas223 said:
The Laws are Vauge on Purpose. So the Officers can decide them selves on scene what they want to charge you with,
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's a way of criminalizing possession without actually making carrying that knife a crime. By making it inconvenient so often you'll decide to leave them all at home.
 
I don't advise it, But I'll be Carrying whatever I feel like carrying that Day, Period. I don't pay any attention to unjust laws made by Corrupt polotitions and DAs trying to make a name, or make the world the way they want it. An Un-armed Unich salve population. I guess that makes me an Outlaw. And if I feel I'm in a dangerous place I'll carry something more signifigant. I believe we all have the GOD given right to SD. Bad men will do what they want anyway. so why Disarm me and Make me(In their eyes) An Outlaw too? Money. I'll carry what I want and if it comes down to it I'll do the stretch. It a matter of Human rights. It's a matter of Principle.
 
Posted by Esav-Exactly. It's a way of criminalizing possession without actually making carrying that knife a crime. By making it inconvenient so often you'll decide to leave them all at home.
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If they up and said all carry of pocket knives is illegal, there would be an up roar. So they do it with sneaky vauge laws. Same with other things.
 
archieblue. The simple answer is "No."

The 3.5 length limit is for folding knives. I've personally handed my Benchmade 722s over to an officer for him to look it. I explained that it was under the 3.5 limit and he held it up to his hand to see if it was larger than his hand. (approx 3.5 inches) It wasn't, and he said the knife was legal.

The statute does not define concealed but it does mention that "Question of whether weapon is concealed is question of fact for the jury which should not be summarily determined by the trial judge at the time that he rules on the defendant's motion to suppress."

So, is a visible clip concealed? Well, we don't have an answer, and in the interest of saving our collective asses, we'll assume that a knife clipped to the pocket is "concealed."


My poor AFCK sat in a drawer for two years because of this law. :]
 
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