Combatives Experience?

mymindisamob

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I would like to know if anyone has first hand experience/knowledge of the performance of Busse knives in combative situations and would be willing to share their opinions? What I am looking for is input on the different models as fighters and ops tooling (SJ,NO,SH etc.). I'm not asking for vivid personal accounts, but valid opinions on tactical use and carry. Hopefully I will get to see/feel the lineup @ Blade West. Thank You in advance!
 
I've sent several Busse Knives to Iraq for my Cousin and his team. They seem to prefer the NO and the Satin Jack sized blades.
 
I only own one Busse since I traded Oku a SJ for sheaths for an ergo NO variant and piggy backed Emerson mini Commander. The NO has done everything I ever asked it to do...... from breaking bands on ammo crates, digging hasty fighting positions, and clearing underbrush to provide a field of fire....... to the single most important job of assisting in opening and preparing MRE's and other forms of sustinance. ( this being the task that my knife saw the most often with a spattering of the others thrown in from time to time ) I've never had a problem with my NO, and rarely had to sharpen it......usually after digging..... and even though I'm no longer in the military, it still goes everywhere with me. I'm a cop now, and my NO rides in a pack sitting in the passenger seat of my unit. I figure since we patrol the mountains of Socorro, NM it will come in handy sooner or later. As a weapon, it would suffice......although I prefer a lighter and faster blade....... the weight alone would knock the bejesus out of your target. My NO has a clip point blade with false edge along the clip, and a birds beak skull crusher that make it better as a fighter than a standard ergo NO (IMHO). Hope this answers your questions.

Jason
 
I thought I should post something instead of always asking questions of my fellow forumites so here is my first review.
As an Infantry Squad Leader in the First Infantry Division, I need a knife that I can depend on. My choice, after a lot of deliberation and lurking in the forums, was the Busse Natural Outlaw.
I have taken my Natural Outlaw to the field three times now and I can only say that it lives up to the "Nuclear Tough" standard.
The first trip to the field was running a station for "Individual Readiness Training", while the knife did not see much hard use I did chop some good size branches and a frozen tree stump between tests. This caused much damage to the surrounding foliage and only minimal damage to the edge. After some work with a ceramic rod from my sharpmaker I was able to get rid of the nicks in the edge.
The next test came during two rotations to the Combat Manuever Training Center in Hohenfels, Germany. This is one of the muddiest and wettest places in the world. My knigfe was wet and muddy for two weeks at time both times and showed no signs of corrosion on the exposed edge.
I used my knife to chop branches to build a hooch, pry open ammo crates, pound stakes with the butt end, chop through recovered commo wire and trip wire, and also opening the ocasional MRE. My Natrural Outlaw did all these tasks easily with no damage to the knife.
The crinkle coating also held up well, in fact better than any other coating I have ever had on a knife. Even after repeated use the worst damage to the coating is a "smoothing out" effect.
The Quilted Micarta Handle provides a secure yet comfortable grip even when muddy, cold and wet, the three prevailing conditions at CMTC. The quilted handle is a vast improvement over the handle on my old Steel Heart II. The only improvement I would make to the handle is subdued handle fasteners. I colored in mine bith a black marker.
In addition to field use I have pried open a locked file cabinet drawer and destroyed various items in the scrap metal and wood bins in the motor pool. The comment I hear the most is "I wouldn't do that with my knife!" to which I reply "You CAN'T do this with your knife"
The only drawback to the Natural Outlaw was the Cordura/Kydex Sheath. Mine is deteriorating rapidly. Somehow while mounted on my LBV a spot rubbed through the black trim aroung the edge and the metal gromets on the bottom of the sheath are getting corroded.
In addition to the durability of the sheath I think there are two design flaws in the sheath (at least for military carry on an LBV). First the whole sheath comes up when you draw the knife if you don't have it tied to your leg. While tying the sheat to your leg at the bottom may work for some people it hinders you if you need to remove your equipment in a hurry. This could be fixed by adding a piece of kydex to the belt loop as a stiffener. The second flaw is the outside pocket/pouch. I like the pocket and use it to carry all manner of things, however it need some improvement. The velcro is noisy and therefor untactical, in addition once it becomes muddy velcro does not work. A simple fastex buckle would fix this (I have always been taught not to bring up a problem unless you have a solution ).

Overall I would give the Natural Outlaw and A+ and the Sheath a C-.

In my opinion the Natural Outlaw is the perfect Infantry Field Knife (possible future model name? ). Performance, size, quality, and price put it light years ahead of the competition. Mine is now scratched, beat up, starting to look ugly,and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Now all I need is the Folder.

Yours in Nuclear Toughness,

Nick


I posted the on the Busse Site and thought I would post it hereas well since I can post pics here also although no knife pics. Just some of Kuwait.

Now that I am back and have had a week or so to settle back in I thought I would post a review of my Euro 4 and Natural Outlaws performnce in Kuwait. Unfortunatly the pictures I took didn't come out


Natural Outlaw

I put the Natural Outlaw throught some hard use and of course it performed beautifully.
We had two morale tents set upone for a Gym and another for watching TV, Movies, etc. When the crates came in with the things to fill the tents, weights, benches, exercise equipment, Ping-pong tables, etc my company was detailed to break open the crates and set up the interiors of the tents. So I of course broought my NO along for the job.
The crates were aprroximatly 8'x8'x8' wooden structures held together by heavy duty bolts and great big ribbed nails. Let me tell you, those crates were built to withstand some punishment. Once we removed the bolts we had to pry one of the panels off to get inside and unload everything. I used the NO since we only had two prybars and three crates to open.
While the job was difficult the NO performed well as a prybar. Everyone watched as I put the NO to work and kept cautioning me that I would reak my knife. After many such warnings I patiently explained that my knife would not break and that since it was guaranteed not to break, in the unlikely event that it, did all I would have to do is let Jerry know and I would recieve a new one; the only question being "What happened". I also explainined that the reply would most certainly be "That shouldn't have happened". While prying, I did experience about 10-15 degrees of flex and of course my knife returned to true after each time. No problems there.
Once the crate was open there were several havy boards supporting the structure of the crate as well as holding the heavy workout equipment in place. It was necessary to remove these boards in order remove the contents. at this point I used the NO to both hammer and pry. It took alot of work to completely disassemble the thing and remove the contents. But I had fun using the NO so brutally and watching the faces of everyone who watched. My only regret was that I didn't have a length of pipe or a camo net pole to use as "cheater bar" so that I could have gotten more leverage.
I also used the NO along with the head that had broken off of a sledgehammer to make chair out of the remains of the crate. Since furniture was scarce in camp we had to make our own. I used the NO to do some joint work and square off the ends of some of the boards and finish off some of the joints I had cut as well as as an adze/planer. I only wish that the pictures I took of the chair would ahve came out. The chair was a heavy duty as my Natural Outlaw.
While the knife performed as well as always the coating did suffer some. I have worn off the coating a few places and worn it smooth in several others. My NO has really taken on that nice "beat up" look. The crinkle coating is the best I have come across to date. Much better than any of the other knives I have had had with other black coatings.
The only thing I have a problem with on this knife is the the sheath. I pretty much beat it up in Hohenfels, Germany while training and it has only gotten worse. I have caved in the kydex liner at the bottom and the eyelets at the bottom corroded while in Germany. I took it with me anyway since I have not gotten around to replacing the sheath. I am still lokking for something that I like design wise.
All in all I would say that I have successfully beaten up my NO in yet another country with only damage to the coating to show for my effforts.

Euro Four,

I recieved this knife in December and I really like it. I think that it is the best small utility knife I have ever seen or owned.The size is perfect for general use for almost any task aroung camp, military or civilian. I would not hesitate to use it for hunting or food prep in the wilderness.
At first I was hesitant to use it. It was so nice and new I didn't want to beat it up. Finally I couldn't stand it any longer and I had to use it. At first I used it for everyday chores; cutting 550 cord, opening boxes and MRE's, and things like that. Then I took it out for about a month for Gunnery/Qualification and really put it to use. One of things that I used it for was splitting some wooden tent pegs used for the large army tents to make expedient mine probes for breach training. The tent pegs were well seasoned oak and hard as hell. I really had to whack on the Euro ith another tent peg to split those things. I worked great, although I wore off some of the crinkle coaing in the process. In addition to splitting the tent pegs I pried open some ammo crates and cut up some heavy card board, all in all the Euro worked out up to expectations of a Busse.I don't think I have ever been happier with such a small knife. Now it looks properly beaten and scarred
Again the sheath was a disappointment. Since I an left handed I have to put the knife in "backwards". Because of the way the kydex insert is formed the knife only fits well in the right hand configuration. And due to the way the insert is made it cut a deep groove in the crinkle coating leanghtwise along a good portion of the blade. I am going to have to get new clothes for both of thase knives since they are my primary fixed blade users.
Performance likethis is why I continue to buy, use, and enjoy my INFI toys.

Hope that was helpful. As far as I am concerned for real life military use and real utility use the whole "fighter" thing is a crock of poo . If I stab or slash you with one of my knives you are going to bleed and most likely die. I only say this not because I am a super dooper high speed tough guy only because my knives are sharp, well made, and always in reach in the field and I have the will to use them on the enemy (or a rack of spare ribs) if necessary. :)

Bottom line buy 'em, use 'em and abuse 'em. If you don't like them you can always sell for what you paid for them or a little more.


Nick
 
As there were no large scale conflicts while I was in the Army, I can only attest to having used my Busse in training situations. I had an A2 Mean Street that I carried on my LBE and it performed every concievable task that was asked of it. True, it is a smaller blade, but as an Airborne infantryman I had enough stuff to carry around already. I unwisely traded it away for a Active Duty. I love the AD, but the MS went quite a few places with me and had serious sentimental value (didn't realize it until I sold it). Oh yeah, I also carried the MS and carry the AD when I go to work as a fireman. Good luck in finding the right Busse. When in doubt, buy two (or three, or four, etc..)
 
:) Thanks Guys, this input is Great and Helpful. Not just in considering my next blade purchase, but use examples can always be helpful at some point. I would appreciate and enjoy any more input. Again, Thank You.
 
Not being in the military, but actually using my Busse's and Rat's I'm beginning to fall in line with Nick on the sizes.

The NO, SH and Camp Tramp sized blades (6-7") get picked the most for the large size and are certainly easier to carry. They don't chop as well as their big brothers, but not by much. I usually baton them anyway.

Just used my ZTNO and a rubber mallet to get through the bones at the end of several racks of ribs. Was using the Bog Dog, but the blade kept twisting so I went a bit bigger. No problem except for the big gouge in the cutting board.

I don't carry my Euro4, YET, but do EDC a SHBA which is pretty much the same size. The Euro will be carried when I get pants for it. Certainly won't be a safe queen. I really like the profile and size of this blade.

Busse's are fun to collect, but even more fun to use, when you can start to appreciate just what these knives are capable of. Simply amazing!

Rob
 
Hi,
My Busse N-O E has been through some hard times. I have used it for prying open lockers (steel), diging in frozen earth and ice, pulling out nails, opening BEER (like a thousand times or more!!) etc... Once it gets in your hand you´ll stop asking qustions and just USE the blade...!!! :) ;)
ALIass

 
mymindisamob said:
How about any Hunting, Skinning and/or Butchering examples?

Ian's the man there. Don't know about the SJ, but he has plenty of experience with the NO and the FNO or the FSH.

I'll shoot him a e/m and we'll see what he comes up with.

Rob
 
ALIass said:
Hi,
My Busse N-O E has been through some hard times. I have used it for prying open lockers (steel), diging in frozen earth and ice, pulling out nails, opening BEER (like a thousand times or more!!) etc... Once it gets in your hand you´ll stop asking qustions and just USE the blade...!!! :) ;)
ALIass


OH MY F!@#$&? GOD! I can open my beer with it too! :D I'm on the list! I will have an NO, oh yes I will!
By the way, I would still like to read examples. I use my weapons and tools on my own for the most part. Reading others experiences and thoughts is my form of comradery and kinship, rather than just questions. Thanks for the input!
 
Hi, mymindisamob
I’ve used the NO-e on several occasions for skinning and butchering. Mostly Kangaroos.

The largest animal was a bullock with a dropped hip. (no pictures though, I didn’t own a camera then) he was a monster. Santa Gertrudis, I shot and field butchered him to share with the station manager.

The NO is a great skinner, the drop point works well, the blade is an ideal length for field butchering.

The only criticism is it’s weight. It tends to give the wrist a hard time after extended use, by the end of the day you really know you’ve been using the NO for butchering. Not many hunters need to use a knife skinning all day though!

But as a hunting/all round camp do it all knife. It’s my first choice Busse. :cool:

The SFNO having the same profile, but larger is another great choice, so far I only used it pigging. :D Once a pig is stuck with the SFNO they have about two heart beats left. :eek: :D

PigCatch3.jpg


Ian
 
Again, Thank You for all the input Guys! Ian, that is a great example. How big is the pig in the picture?
 
I have carried a Zero Tolerance Natural Outlaw (in Dave Brown Kydex) in the inside pocket of my 5.11 vest while on personnel details. It has 3" of sharpened top edge, its handle spine and belly are ground flush with the micarta for comfort, and the skull crusher pommel is reduced to 1/4". As a combative knife it is the most appropriate Busse I own.

I have also carried a Desert Ergo Natural Outlaw on my BlackHawk! rigs or belt in more dangerous situations, and consider it the finest all around combat blade in the Busse lineup.

I kept a Desert Defender (again in Brown Kydex) zip-tied to my molle equipt bullet resistant vest, just in case...

Occasionally I would carry an Assault Shaker on the left side of my belt, but I've found that my EKI waved Mini Commander comes to hand much faster and much meaner than the hard to grip AS.

And finally, I have a Battle Mistress in the outside pocket of my medic/BOB, which has been used more than all my other Busse's combined.


So if I didn't have the BM handy would I upgrade from the NO to the SH? No. As a Light infantry carry knife the weight of the SH is more of a liability than it's increased blade length compensates for (IMHO). Notice how JJ Ronin's NO even has a clip point, and rides the front seat of his car. 7'' is great on the CRK GB knife, but (I think that) most light infantry types prefer 6" in the extra wide Busse format. Put a guy in a Bradly or Stryker vehicle and that line of thought might change though. What then is the combat application of the SH? IMO it is the best BOB knife in existence for most people and most applications. I'd like to see other's thoughts on these matters.

Another perspective is that the knife to compete with in Afghanistan and Iraq right now is the Cold Steel SRK ($50 at the PX). It is light, capable, and fairly well sheathed. A Satin Jack Combat Grade would be the closest comparable Busse knife, but those are extremely difficult to find, and usually marked up for resale. I would put the SJ-CG on par with the NO as a versatile combat carry knife given the fact that different people have different needs. I simply preferred the NO.
 
BOB= Bug Out Bag. It's pretty much a survival kit tailored to your situation. With a Steel Heart in your BOB you can be comfortable with a little Badger Attack or Mean Street on your hip.

Edited to add: My BOB knife was a BM because my primary use for it was cutting people and sensitive items out of cars. When I finally began carrying an axe in the vehicle the BM could have been downgraded to a SH, but I didn't have it in country at that time.
 
mymindisamob said:
Ian, that is a great example. How big is the pig in the picture?

Hi,
It was about 70-80 lbs, just a small sow, she was running with a mob of about 10 out the back of my place and was the unlucky one that the dog grabbed. :D
Ian.
 
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