Commander Tranier - method of use

Joined
Apr 5, 2001
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For those that use any of EKI's training blades-

How do incorporate these blunt, yet fully operable knives into your training? For partner sparring might they be unsafe? Are they intended mainly for heavy bag striking drills?

Thank you for your comments

Seth
 
Seth,

Well, Rule Numero Uno is, always use eye protection suitable for firearms use or better.

That is...always...

These Trainers are rather on the pointy side. In my opinion, they should be more rounded...

The way I use my Trainer for the most part is against a Live Partner, but you cannot and should not go fast with these Trainers as they are rather pointy. That also goes for the more blunt or rounded Trainers from Spyderco and Benchmade as well.

What you want to do is, get two Focus Mitts from Asian World of Martial Arts, Century or some other Manufacturer...then, you have your partner try to box your ears with the focus mitts, slowly at first...as you access, draw and open.

What you are going to find out is, the Wave is easy on a Demo with yourself or to impress friends, but you have to concentrate and develop muscle memory to do it under stress...and you can develop that degree of skill. But you might find it hard in the first few tries with the knife either not opening at all, or, half opening.

If the knife does not open, don't stop and say, "Damn, it did not open." Then you are training yourself to say, "Damn, it did not open" on the street. Immediately strike with the butt of it, or hit the focus mitt with your off-hand as you snap it open...

If the knife is half open, open it on the focus mitt.

All of this might seem far-fetched or difficult at first, but you can develop this skill...

The Trainer is primarily used for drawing and opening, acquisition skills.

Have your Partner place a Carotid Choke on you from behind and be goal-oriented and agree beforehand to be realistic.

He will not let go until he feels the pressure that would be a disabling cut in real life. A give and take. If you're not seeing stars from the choke, you're not trying.

Go through all possible scenarios and whatnot, stairwells, confined spaces between cars, make sure you do these things in private areas away from meddling pissbags who will think that someone is being cut to ribbons with no blood present.

But do not use them full speed on someone in a sparring type of usage. Not good. Use Al Mar Knives or Boker Applegate/Fairbairn Hard Rubber Trainers for those times. Much safer.

The Folding Trainer is to learn how to deploy and how to use for specific, accurate cutting during Anti-Grappling and Multiple Attacker Scenarios.

After a while, use a SureFire unexpectedly to get the uncontrollable flinch from your Partner being temporarily blinded, then draw and open.

Use a Can of Inert Pepper Spray, used for Training, Fog them unexpectedly, draw...this is especially useful in Multiple Attacker Scenarios where you cannot get everyone.

Use your imagination, but don't go full speed with these things. It is all about learning how to access, draw, open and cut or thrust, but do that on focus mitts, etc., only bare flesh slowly and deliberately as if someone were trying to choke you or break your neck. Or if someone was bear-hugging you and trying to immobilize you so one of their "Associates" can get some steel in you, on you or a broken bottle in your face, etc.

Real life and no Duelling.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
Hey Don

I wanna come over and play at your house!
smile.gif


I have one of the Commander trainers and I use it on my Spar Pro dummy. I'm not lucky enough to find anyone who wants to do live drills with me and my trainer.

All of Don's suggestions and drills are excellent ideas that I someday hope I will be able to use with a training partner. The one I currently use is starting the dummy at about arms length and doing an elbow strike to the midsection with my non-knife hand while protecting the side of my head with the same hand. While drawing the Commander with my knife hand and slashing at Spar-Pro.

That's about the only contribution I can throw in the list for now.

Ross T.

[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited 05-16-2001).]
 
Ross,

The thing about choking is, if you do not do it that way, it's just a false sense of security, you know?

Say you are teaching a Woman how to do these things...

You just sort of hang your arm around her neck and she just sort of nicks you with a Trainer.

She has no idea what it's like to have her air cut off and has no idea of what she has to really do to cut someone off of her.

The same applies for Man, but is more important with a Woman.

I see these Self-defense Courses and I see these lame "attacks" that are performed that way out of ignorance or a want for students.

Meaning, not everyone wants to be choked out, I can understand that...no one wants to be "Manhandled," especially Women. That's a no-brainer, but they have to accept that if they want to really learn how to do something like that.

"Hey! I just plopped down $75.00 and this bastard is going to choke me out?"

You don't have to choke them out, but you have to be able to make them feel the pressure and see the stars coming on. Otherwise, when the criminal really grabs them and locks down, they're going to freeze or freak out.

If you're a Police Officer, even more important. Get an ASP Red Gun and put it in your Duty Holster...if you're right handed...you have to improvise and cheat some, if you are carrying a right-handed Commander inverted in the left pocket, you can do that with the trainer too, etc., etc...

 
Hey Don

I understand, I was just commenting on the training I have been able to perform with the Commander trainer. I have taken self-defense courses that emphasized the use of folders, namely the spydercos, where realistic attacks were the mainstay.

We used ground down spyderco knock-offs and at times we had people don a full fist suit and had him attack us from choke holds to bear hugs to every possible way you could be attacked.

I also know what you mean about not taking your drills too realistic. You get some guys who go to just go through the motions. I remember that when I was being put in a choke hold I asked for 10% more power in the choke. I thought my training partner was being too weak with the choke, he went a little more. Still to weak and I wanted to feel somemore pressure. I asked for more and he applied WAAAAYYY more. It chage my whole outlook on the technique. I don't think I ever moved faster in my life. The thing about it though was I feel I had the technique down but I could see how very easy it would be to freeze up. Even if you were trained and just never have experienced someone actually trying to choke you out.

It was explained to me about "Freezing up" like this. If you ever watch those nature films and you see the impala fleeing from the hungry lion. The impala is doing what it has done since it can remember. Run from the big animal that is chasing you. It is doing what has been charted on it's mental map. Once charted on your mental map it becomes easier to bring up a program for the situation at hand. But if you continue to watch the film and you see the lion get a paw onto the impala. You see the impala practically freeze as if to give up.

What has happened is that the impala is experiencing something that is so far off it's mental map that it is at a complete loss for and action or to be able to bring up a program to deal with the situation at hand. It hasn't experienced the lions paw on it and it can't figure out what to do, because it's never happened. It lost because that hasn't been charted on it's mental map.

I see that the same way I do training. If you can't bring yourself as close to how an actual violent confrontation is going to be you are doing yourself and everyone else you train with a great disservice. Not saying you gotta go full force right away, you'll end up scaring away alot of people new to training but it's got to be built up so that they can plot out and chart and expand their mental maps so that the default program isn't : "FREEZE UP"

Anyways back to Mr. Thomas's question and Don's last statement about moving the Commander to the left side. Another good idea. I carry Emersons in both of my front pockets and if you do the same you have to work on deploying from your other side also. Not only that but opposite hand deploys. Such as your right hand accessing your left knife or left accessing your right knife. You other hand may be put out of commision or may be busy doing something else. Although when you do opposite side access I am just going to get my hand on the knife and open it when out of the pocket via thumbdisc. I am not relying on the wave to deploy the knife because of the angle that it will leave the pocket.

Ross T.
 
Seth:

I am lucky enough to have training partners who are willing to spar full-contact with metal trainers, including my Commander Trainer. I usually go easy on the thrusts since, as it has been mentioned, the end is a bit too pointy. For protection, we wear either Macho MVP headgear and face-cage with racquetball goggles or fencing masks, as well as hockey gloves an groin protection. Some guys also like to wear throat protection (a real concern with thrusts). You get bruised from the slashes and thrusts, but it is no worse than full contact stick sparring.

If you don't want to go blade to blade, here are some other training drills that I like to do:
(1) Suit up in your typical sparring gear and stuff a folding training knife in your pocket or waistband. Have your partner do the same. The round starts empty-handed, but if one guy starts getting his tail kicked, he can draw the folder and attack with it. This is great for building awareness of the physical cues a person gives when he goes for a weapon, and it's a great way to practice your disarms (or, if you're a fast draw, your knife sparring).
(2) You can alternatively give only one guy a knife. Here, the rule is the knife-carrier can only draw once he gets in a bad position, but the other guy can draw his opponent's blade at any time and use it against him. For those of us who always carry at least one folder, having it drawn by your opponent and used against you is a real concern (not to mention a really stupid way to die).
(3) The folding trainers also work well for stick sparring — you start with sticks and can't go for the blade until you loose your stick or hit a clinch and get it tied up.

Take care and train hard,
Fedaykin
 
I knew I could trust the Usual Suspects to have wisdom on this topic. Thanks to all.

I tested myself on wave opening my Commander BT under simulated stress. I tried waving after a few wind sprints. I had more fumbles that clean secure draws -- time for more practice.

I'll be ordering a Commander trainer as my next knife. Hopefully one day I can find a liked minded training partner.

Seth
 
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