Comments on a knife design with an FMA-influenced grip?

Jim March · Mar 17, 2000

This is my entry in the "Talonite design contest here: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/003857.html

Guards integral with the blade steel are a bad idea due to the near-crazy expense of the metal...this much Talonite is worth over $100. And since the metal is awesome at utility tasks, a "pure fighter" would be a waste.

The pommel-blade is a neat addition made possible by the radically fattened pommel allowing for a "Kali grip". It became a question of "what to do with that area" and the answer is, add purely peaceful functionality to a fighter!

Some of the inspiration on the grip can be seen here:

and at the rest of the Kris Cutlery site: http://www.invis.com/kriscutlery/

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 03-17-2000).]

Asuang · Mar 18, 2000

What is it that seems so Filipino about that
handle shape. It seems to look like the
rest of their art objects and the style of
certain little decorations. Hard to explain
what I'm saying but there's a certain organic
look that at the same time looks like Silat.

Myers · Mar 18, 2000

Looks like a cool knife. You mention a hammer grip, but the angling looks tailor-made for a saber grip to me.

Keith

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Attitude Is Everything!

K Williams · Mar 18, 2000

Well I'd prefer a different blade shape, but that blade in the pommel is nice. Perfect for punyo strikes to the forearm/wrist area...or the throat now that I think of it. Why not make it from another steel if Talonite is so expensive? A good carbon or tool steel would be nice.

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K. Williams
kel620@aol.com
Modern Arnis Student

[This message has been edited by K Williams (edited 03-18-2000).]

Jim March · Mar 19, 2000

The people who make Talonite are doing a design contest; win the contest, you get your design made for you for free.

The metal WILL be Talonite, that's just part of the deal. Therefore it places certain restrictions on things; for starters, you want a design with minimal metal waste.

My understanding is that FMAs grip knives with the pinkie through middle finger, therefore pommel swells are a extremely common.

Since Talonite just plain will not rust, you might as well do equally corrosion-proof grips because it's potentially a hell of a good dive knife.

Talonite has no iron; it ain't steel, it's a cobolt alloy. Rockwell tests don't even properly report it's qualities.

Jim

K Williams · Mar 19, 2000

"My understanding is that FMAs grip knives with the pinkie through middle finger"

I didn't know this. That sounds like a very unsecure grip to me. Everyone I've seen grip a knife holds it with all five digits. I have seen some videos where the knife is gripped with 4 fingers and the thumb is kept loose for trapping/hooking, but I hold mine with all fingers.

Jim March · Mar 19, 2000

It's more a question of "emphasising where the strength is" in the grip I think. The Japanese use the same thinking in their sword handling.

Classic example: go pick up a heavy bucket. Without thinking about it, you'll use your pinkie through middle finger, your "trigger finger" will be largely slack.

The forefinger and thumb are used to "gently guide" the blade's direction but the power is with the other three.

So you end up with fat pommels, or they're fairly long and curve downwards a bit like Donna's Voodoo Child.

Jim

judge · Mar 21, 2000

K Williams,
for a good description of the Filipino knife grip, check out Michael Janich´s book "Knife Fighting - A Practical Course" (Paladin Books). The thing about gripping a knife with pinkie, ring and middle finger is that it somehow "anchors" the handle in your palm, which helps absorbing impact on the knife, for example when hitting a bone. I remember an article in an old Fighting Knife magazine issue where a SEAL vet recalled breaking his thumb on the first severe impact while using his knife in saber grip. On the other hand (no pun intend) your thumb and index finger stay relaxed with that Filipino style grip, which helps your hand stay flexible (unlike a tight hammer grip)and allows for thumb hooking. I didn´t understand the Filipino grip till I tried it out on full force cutting and stabbing tough targets, it works quite well.

K Williams · Mar 21, 2000

I already have one finger with a cut tendon. Holding a knife with only 3 fingers seems like a good way to get more cut tendons, but I could be wrong. Does this gripping style work in the reverese grip?

Donna Barnas · Mar 21, 2000

Jim, Very nice design. The handle does have that Filipino Bolo look to it. As far as Donna's Voodoo Child, it is no more as it is now in the hands of a worthy owner. In its stead I own a 4 1/2" double edged dagger in CPM 3V with a very thin blade. It has a roughened micarta handle and the guard is unusual and unlike any that are out there. It is designed not to catch on any clothing. No one will ever see a picture of this knife because there are none and never will be. It is for my eyes only and the maker will not duplicate the knife. It is mine alone. Mystical huh? It is a knife that has no face and no name.

Kelvin,
My first Kali instructor taught us to grip the knife with the first three fingers. It doesn't translate to reverse grip.

Judge,
its good to know that you have put the grip through some good testing and that it works. My Guro told us at the time that it was for as you said, flexibility and allows you to move your knife quickly and get off those figure eights. For a short time I trained under another instructor who told me that there is no specific grip. I also have Micheal Janich's book but I haven't read it yet. I have had it for a while too.