Comments on Bram's gunting videos

S

SYK

Joined
Feb 21, 2000
Messages
2,232
OK, this afternoon I received 4 Gunting vids from Spyderco SFO.

Cost was abt US$120(including abt US$20 shipping)

The first vid was "Spyderco presents" and the other 3 were "Bram Frank presents"

I watched the first "Spyderco presents" and the last of the 3 "Bram Frank presents".

Video quality was OK, except that the sound was a bit too low. Bram speaks OK except that I had to adjust a bit to his "american" accent. His other guys I had more difficulty listening to.

I'm not sure how much I will gain from them. There is a lot of stuff in them to be sure. In fact one has to hand it to Bram to see the way he can squeeze out every possible angle of usage from every part of his knife. I guess I will have to absorb all of it in then get something out of it that will be of value to me.

What I have been looking for is some way to blend in knifework into my own personal structure of how I would deal with things. I am comfortable with boxing movements and generally would seek to use evasion, distancing, faking etc, basically I just want to land on the other guy first.

My personal experience from MA is that in a certain distance, who lets off first will usually land first, and you generally can't block the other guys attack, you just have to make sure it is you landing first.

So my idea of knife usage is that I draw it because I don't know what is coming at me, fist or knife, and if there is no blade coming at me, I use no edge too.

If I believe that a blade is coming, but I have enough time or distance, I will draw the Gunting and inertia open it in the same single motion of drawing it. Then on the return forwards, I can swing or thrust. My idea would be to cut first, in such a way that the other guy hopefully cannot cut me.

If I have no space, I will use the ramp to Kin-op it.

Using the knife in takedowns, grappling and limb "destruction", there seems to be a lot of this stuff. I am happy with this because I am not comfortable with this, so I want to learn abt it.

Whether or not I will be able to use it personally, I don't know.

I do see a lot of interesting ideas here, but since I am the only person in this country with a Gunting, it will be difficult to practice them out with other like-minded people since there are none here.

I think the greatest value of the ideas in the vids will be for LEOs who need a good understanding of non-lethal restraint, takedown, compliance techniques.

I don't work as an LEO anymore and feel that what I need is different.

But one can see the great deal of effort Bram has put into trying to get across all the stuff he has.

I don't regret buying the videos and will keep on watching them.

Incidentally, Bram needs to eat more sushi and less fatty food.

A happy x'mas to all
 
I was quite happy practicing the kin-ops on my hands and house furniture, but all over my arm, as I saw in "Spyderco presents"....I think I will get the trainer.

So far I have only ruined one pair of trousers when I banged open Bram's toy on my clothesrack.

Incidentally, I see that in the vids that Bram always closes his gunting knife with two hands. I always close mine with one hand. Is there any reason why I should close it with two hands?

Also, is there any value in inertia-opening this knife? In the vids Bram pooh-poohs IOing the knife, but I find it quite natural. I grab the knife by the top pivot half and pull it up in a curve, snapping it backwards or outwards...the blade pops out forcefully and it's a 10 out of 10 opening....a gross motion....also because of the clip shape, very difficult to lose grip on knife, no matter how stressed you are.

I always open my gunting this way, and I don't think it is looser than the factory tension. I can open my tip-down standard and even my CF dragonfly this way, but it is not as sure and easy as the gunting.

On the grips for the knife, I think I am comfortable now. I was using the "correct" reverse grip all along, but was not sure of the forwards grip, which is now OK after Bram explained it recently in a previous thread. Also the tomahawk grip and the butt-striking grip which I sort of figured out before watching the vids.

I need a very secure forwards grip, because I want to be able to ram it with full force and pull it out without it coming out of my hand.

So far this handle is the most secure I have felt.

Those front-break and belt sheaths look nice but I live in the tropics(no jacket) and work in a financial trading room....not discrete enough.

I have considered the inside pocket sheath, but I still think it will be difficult to carry the knife as an EDC for me.

What a shame, because this knife seems to have more in self-defence potential than most other knives.

As an ending note, Bram's ceaseless work at promoting his knife and knifework have resulted in someone like me halfway across the world in the far east buying first his knife, then his vids, then his trainer.....

Thus is the power of modern commerce and information technology.

A happy x'mas to all
 
SYK:
Thank you for trying to use and understand the Gunting System..

If you inertia open the knife to have it open already...why not carry a fixed blade? Then its OPEN...
Kinetic opening allows for grab 'n go then if need be it opens,
If you can inertia open your knife its too loose...tighten it..what seems as too tight is right..
Mine won't..inertia open that is..
as you've seen if its open already you've lost a great deal of defensive capability of the Tool..

Proper safe closing of a knife is with two hands..
all knives close safely with two hands...
I teach two handed closing..I can never close it on my fingers..and I always protect my knife with a tool retention action..
sorry thats just me..
will it close with one? you bet..never move your hand from user position, release the lock..turn and close it with your thumb or off something else..
WARNING: your first finger must stay in place up front, in the first finger notch to catch on the choil area of the blade..its notched to fit on your finger so the blade cannot close on your fingers..move that finger out of the way and you'll chop a piece out of your other fingers..I've seen it done..

yes.. I love sushi..
no I don't eat lots of fatty foods...
I have a permanent disbility injury to my back...
Permanent nerve injury to my arms & hands..
It effects my stomach muscles and I lay in bed for many weeks as they repaired my back..
I'm sorry that my physical shape is not in line with what you think I should look like..
Of course that was a while ago..
I do physical therapy "crunchies" with 160 lbs of resistence...3 sets of 12-15 reps..
of course I'm almost 50...so I'm an old guy

You're not going to be happy if you automatically open your knife as soon as you pull it..cause you're gonna cut someone when it wasn't called for..
I'll be honest. if thats what you want,,get an Emerson..Ernies knives open with the pull..on the draw
engagement is immediate..
that's why Ernie made the wave...
Cause a regular knife needs to be open "NOW!"...

If you want a choice and a non motor skill of draw and hit..use the kinetic..

Thanks again...

Bram
 
OK, first of all, I want to apologize if I offended someone abt his physical shape.

Wow, Bram's words are even more deadly than his knife work.

I used to run marathons when I was younger, but now I am way out of shape(with a family and sit-on-the-backside job), though fortunately injury free, unlike Bram. My wife wants me thin back again and remarked that most of the people on the knife vids were on the plump side.

I said, this is not aerobics, it is knife-fighting. You don't have to look like a sex-god to finish off someone else.

For 50, with a back injury, you are in damn good shape, old man, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

In chinese culture, you would be described as having a PROSPEROUS appearance.

Thanks for your prompt reply and if you ever come to Singapore, I will buy you a good sushi/sashimi meal or maybe an even better chinese one. You like to eat raw lobster while it is still moving?

Closing the knife---Knife edge up(so the blade won't drop), I use my thumb to disengage the lock, my index finger to move the blade just a bit out of the locking position, then put my fingers out of the way and use my index finger to close the blade. I do it with either hand....I used to carry the balisong in a state of ignorance abt 15 years ago....it was my first carry. Then for abt 10 years I did not carry....until abt 2 years ago, I started again.

When you disengage the lock, your fingers are still in the blade path right? Then you move the blade a bit and it is only just after that that you put your fingers out of the way and then close the blade right?

Or is it when you disengage the lock your fingers are already out of the blade path? In that case, you'll be holding on to the hole in a pinch with your other hand and the thumb of your knife hand will be on the lock and the fingers will be on the clip.

I do understand that the concept is to ensure as much safety as possible.

On carrying a folder---the law here is such that if I carry a fixed in a sheath, I can be finished off legally more easily than if I carry a folder.

On the wave---no wave for me as I am always carrying my 2 year old. Also only tip-down, no tip-up. The effect of an accidentally opened knife on my 2 year old as he climbs all over me would be unacceptable.

I want something that doesn't open easily, but I CAN open it easily. And if you can open it with your thumb, no matter how tight it is, I believe I can IO it. My belief is that with your knife, after KOing it, the next fastest way is to IO it, be it in the hand already or the pocket/IWB.

When you put the web of your hand behind the horn, press your index finger alongside the clip edge near the blade, press the back of your longest finger on the other edge of the clip, and your thumb pressing flat on the opposite G-10 surface. Draw the knife out of your waistband/pocket, and just after it clears the cloth, snap your wrist back hard. The blade pops out, then on the natural return, the handle will go into your hand as you move it forwards to engage the target or whatever.

I think you will be able to IO your tight knife like this.

If you can see any problems with this motion, pls comment.

It is as fast as an emerson to me, except that I am carrying a much superior knife, with a better lock, better handle, better butt, better workmanship, many more options, much more potential, much less boring.

Watching the vids has made me realize the usefulness of the gunting between empty hands to open blade. I'm not sure I can do it, but I know maybe it can be done.

So if I can open your knife like an E, I've got that option, but I can also bring it out closed, and maybe do what you have been teaching, so I have that option too.

OK, have a good x'mas, and thanks for all the explanations.
 
SYK;
thanks again for all the kind words..really..
The usage of the Gunting is from Professor Presas. Sinawali applications or Tapi-Tapi: Mano De Tranka...
from our Corridas..

I release the lock with my thumb...( holding the knife)
I shake-snap the knife gently, the blade partially closes onto my index finger..
If I need to, I reopen the knife with a snaping upward motion..
I rotate the knife into a pinch grip..
I close the knife with my thumb...the exact mirror image of a regular Spyderco thumb opening...if needed I reopen the knife with my thumb.

A Kinetic opening is as fast or faster then an inertia opening..As Professor Presas used to say to us.." Upon contact"..well upon contact I remain closed or I open..

If you have children, then you want your knife tight, so that its slow/tight to open with your thumb... won't open with inertia and it opens "BAM" kinetically.That way they cannot open the knife themselves...accidentally or on purpose...

If you are a Balisong man,,keep that in mind as you use the Gunting..then you'll feel its origin..as Shishir Inocalla said" its the Balisong of the millenium"...

Have a great day..
by the way..
My daughter is almost 22...and yes..
I'm smaller than when that tape as made..
alot smaller..
thanks to Bowflex..and stronger as well..
but I am almost 50..I can't change that...

I'd love one day to come to Singapore..maybe even teach a Gunting seminar or two..
I love fresh Lobby..especially when its cut infront of us and the head has no idea that the tail is gone and become sashimi..
I love sweet shrimp,Of course with fried heads... fresh Uni..
 
OK, I thought about Bram's suggestion to tighten his G so that it would be safer around kids and tightened mine with a torx. Just a bit, to the point where the torx screw feels resistant to smooth turning.

For my G, when I tightened it pass this abovementioned point, it was tight and secure to open at the start(where the "detent"clicks), but then as it moved to the locked-open position, it got tighter and became too difficult to move with my thumb smoothly. At this tightness, I could still IO it, but not easily and consistently, as I had to use too much force.

A bit less tension on the screw(to the a/m point),and it was fine. I could still KO and IO it easily, yet it was tight enough at the start to make it a bit more difficult to click open.

Of course to maintain this tension, I'll have to tighten all my knives regularly, I think it's a good idea.

About knives opening accidentally, I tend to carry spydercos almost all the time because I think the hole is the safest opening device. I like the disc on the E but if I carry a tip down E(CQC-7), that disc might get rubbed as I carry my kid and the blade may open. As I said, I can take it if I cut myself, but I don't want my kid to get cut because of my carelessness.

I think it's much more difficult to rub the hole to open the blade accidentally as the hole has no protrusions.

I also like tip-down because I believe that if my knife opens accidentally, the damage from tip-up will be worse, based on the way I pick him up, put him down and carry him.

I have been wearing tip-down frontlock(I think the springback makes them even safer)spydercos and carrying my kid for 2 years plus and feel quite confident of his safety.

But I avoided the linerlocks and compression locks as I was not confident that they would not open accidentally.

Now with Bram's simple suggestion, "Hey, tighten the screw", I think I will be looking to carry more types of knives.
One last thought, I believe that if you tighten the screw, those knives with smaller holes might be difficult to open. The hole of the G is not small, but with my G tightened, I find it easier to use the ramp, and can forsee myself never using the hole from now on.

Now since it's the festive season, some words on food to Bram. If Bram likes raw seafood, then he will probably like freshly cooked seafood. I have eaten in many good restaurants in this region and the best seafood I have ever eaten in SEAsia is found in the island of Phuket(part of Thailand),at an open-air restaurant by the beach called "Kian Eng".

When I land at Phuket airport, I go not to the hotel, but immediately to this restaurant. I sit under the coconut trees on the beach, soak in the bright hot sun, feel and smell the seabreeze, look out over the pure white sand at the small sailboats bobbing on the clear blue water, eat tennis-ball sized clams, huge live prawns the size of my forearm(big prawns are sweeter than lobsters), fish grilled in coconut milk and chilli in banana leaves.

For freshly cooked seafood, you cannot beat this place.

Alright, on this gastronomic note, I wish all a happy x'mas.
 
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