Commissions or Speculation-built? Where are you on this continuum?

SharpByCoop

SharpByCoop

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Oct 8, 2001
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Makers: It is apparent to me, as makers get started and progressing, a natural occurrence is a client reaching to you for your work, which is 'Customized' to their liking. They have *some* influence on the build.

A. This has GREAT benefits (and many pitfalls): You get to experiment, your get to learn more, you produce a piece you may not have though capable. There are TONS of stories.

B. You may also have a style/design you aren't fond of, or materials which don't resonate with you. It's a lasting impression.

B can turn into A. Hopefully.

Or.... I'll have NONE of that. I want to offer ONLY what I wish to make, how I wish to make it. I will limit my sales appeal, for the opportunity to be free in my work.

Collectors/Clients: You are interested in a maker's work because they have posted something desirable. It's close to what you want....but you have a better idea for your project. So you approach them.

This may lead to both A and B. ^^^

Or they ONLY offer projects as they make them; in some form of announcement. There are many who are successful (?) at this. However.... You may not ever be first in line. :(

Both: What's your take? What story or guidelines can you educate the viewers?

Let's discuss.
 
I do all three. I have my own line of offerings, plus I make spec knives, plus I have received MANY great ideas from clients that wanted to put their mark on the knife they're ordering. The third option has resulted in some very fine creation elements I wouldn't have thought of. It keeps me fresh and striving.

Though most of the ideas I've received from clients have been good, I occasionally receive an idea that doesn't work - there are certain design elements that need to be met to have a knife achieve that "Look" IMHO. In those instances, most clients defer to my artistic insight......my advice to those people is to defer to the knifemakers' input.
 
I have had numerous rewarding experiences working with makers to produce an example of THEIR work that most suits MY preferences. Those two elements need not be in conflict.

In the first place, the reason I want to order a knife from that maker is that I like THEIR style. I haven't and won't ask a maker to turn out something completely outside of their aesthetic sphere. I will make requests on materials and finish, and may occasionally make small suggestions on design - "I really like this camp knife, but what do you think if we lengthen the guard a smidge and turn it slightly back toward the handle?" That sort of thing.

All that said, I will quite often just ask a maker, when my order comes up, "What do YOU really feel like making? What's the knife that you've been wanting to get to, but haven't found the time?" That approach can yield some really special results. Giving a maker the opportunity to step out of the line of filling orders for their most popular models can be a huge win for both of us.
 
I, personally, tell a Maker what style of knife I’d like to have, size and such, find out what materials they prefer to work with, chose a few different options and give them Artistic License considering they are The Artist.

I feel if a Maker is doing/using/making a knife with things they themselves enjoy it seems to make things easier on all involved....has always worked exceptionally well for me anyways.

EDITED TO ADD: I posted without reading anything but Coop’s but I see great minds think alike....Roger. :D
 
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Great question...I once asked a similar question to makers...would they rather make a knife to a customer’s specifications or stick to their own specifications?...I got a very tepid response...three replies, if I remember correctly...

I have asked a limited number of well respected makers to craft a knife based on my ideas...T. Steingass, Bob Ohlemann, Dan Graves, Neil Lindsay, Milan Mozolic, Ricardo Vilar, Tobin Hill, Alan Davis and, most recently, Bruce Barnett from Australia...almost always my requests take the form of materials, Damascus patterns and size...I have, on occasion sent materials...as far as I know, I have never asked a maker to step outside his comfort zone and I have always followed their suggestions...I really, really enjoy getting a knife this way and it’s even better, for me at least, when I get WIP pictures...

I have three knives that Alan Davis made for me that are my favorite three and, as far as I am concerned, are three of the best he has ever made...I’m sure, though, that some of Alan’s other fans will strongly disagree with me on this...

Cheers/bg
 
as a designer, I feel like I'm right around the centre of the continuum...
 
As a buyer/collector, if someone is making something that I like, I usually go with the models they have on offer and pick materials myself (in some cases including steel - like a Nichols low layer boomerang). I usually ask their opinion and see if they suggest anything different etc. If they have shown artistic variance in that particular model I may specify the version I was hoping for. I have in the past asked a maker about a handle material and he said he hated working with it, so I went with something else. I should have asked if he would do it, since I ended up not quite getting the knife I wanted.

And I do expect some artistic license. Sheath work is where this comes into play sometimes, or the pins, or little things.

All in all, I really enjoy the process. My last four full customs have all come out exactly as I had hoped, better even.
 
Bmgillum said:
I have three knives that Alan Davis made for me that are my favorite three and, as far as I am concerned, are three of the best he has ever made...I’m sure, though, that some of Alan’s other fans will strongly disagree with me on this...
Cheers/bg
Click to expand...

IF he isn't a student of Johnny Stout, he is sure influenced by him.

Best Regards,

Steven Garsson
 
In earlier years, I was also one who commissioned makers but only about 10% of what I purchased was commissioned. I typically gave some input and was happy with the collaborations each time.

Otherwise, I see it, love it and buy it.
 
Great topic Jim!

As a wife of a collector (with a few of my own) I can say a few things along these lines being around my man for 20+ years in this industry and his/our evolution. I'll say we cause we share in the collection ownership but his is much more robust than mine, lol.

When this all began we started out buying what we liked from dealers, makers, and fellow collectors. As the obsession grew the evolution changed for us. We began commissioning pieces. Most of the makers we dealt with had no problem with our influences of what we wanted. We understood the wait period and helped with budgeting.

Now, it is not to say we do not pick up a knife here and there that are not part of the commissions, cause it does happen. But the majority of our purchases are planned and scheduled out.

I have yet to commission a piece. I am very picky on my pieces and have to love it for me to buy it. I only have 1 commission on the books the rest are my other half, but he does ask my opinions.

And this has then become hoarding of materials, lol. Different handle materials and skins for the sheaths. As I roll my eyes and laugh about it all.

It really has become a great way on building relationships with these makers. Getting to know them for more than their craft.

But we have come across makers that will not accept input of their craft for a knife we want to purchase. We have to think long and hard on how we want to proceed. At times they may take a few recommendations and that would be enough, depending on what it is being built and who the maker is and the secondary market.

The thing as we start to become older, middle-aged (geez i feel old now saying that), we have to evaluate overall collection, where it goes after our time here or selling on the secondary market and how strong the maker work is.

I'll finish my rambling now.
 
I have no qualms about purchasing what a maker wants to produce. Frankly most of the customs I have purchased were made for some one else, or produced by the maker how they want and listed for sale.

I have worked with a maker on all the details of a knife design. Size, blade shape, number of blades, handle material, steel choice, and color of spacers, shield, etc. It was an amazing knife. As far as I'm aware, the maker has never produced another in that size, configuration of blades, and none in that size and color combo.

That is a knife I truly regret selling.
 
If a maker has something I like, and the price is fair, many times have and will purchase it.

However, the ones that are true collaborations between my suggestions and the maker's running with it are the knives that really speak to me...especially if I provided the handle material, or Devin Thomas stainless damascus was used. Have a Tom Krein that remains one of my favorite chef's knives for that reason.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
^^^ Very insightful... all of you. Thank you.

It appears that there is SPECIAL owner interest, if the client is involved with the commission.

That's human nature: there is a part of our personality embedded in this new work.

Giving an artist latitude? I'm fully aware and involved with this aspect. I do it daily. Nice!

I will ALSO say that I have been taken aback by a client's wishes, and yet it can turn out better than I would have done without their input. It's happened.

I also have a regular dealer who chooses every background color. I will make them all look good, yet I feel a sense of artistic restriction. However, the client pays the fee for what HE wants, and so this is irrelevant to my artistic freedom.

If a maker depends on his clients for sustainable income, this HAS to be a factor. Part-time? Not so much.

What an enviable opportunity to be able to simply make what you want and offer it for sale ASAP--to a readily buying public. That does NOT happen overnight, and the preceding years have probably earned this status.

Good news to the buyer, it will SELL quickly as well, if the need arises.

This raises the awareness that the client-inspired pieces may have a 'uniqueness' about them which will throttle back potential resales. Yup. Such are the prices we pay.
 
betzner said:
In earlier years, I was also one who commissioned makers but only about 10% of what I purchased was commissioned. I typically gave some input and was happy with the collaborations each time.

Otherwise, I see it, love it and buy it.
Click to expand...
 
I like to make my own designs probably first and foremost simply because they remain completely in my comfort zone. However, I do like to listen to what the customers and collectors have to say and work closely with them, there are lot of benefits to doing this for everyone. For one, they get a truly custom knife with they're own personal touch, and for me it's a great way to increase my skill level as a maker. Some of my best knife and sheath ideas have come from my customers. People here on this forum and on other facebook groups, have had some great ideas that have contributed to my best work. A good example of this is the first made Randall replica that I started recreating, it is by far my most request knife to build and gets the most likes and comments on Face book and IG. I probably would not have built any of the Randall replicas if I hadn't been asked to. Another great idea is the arrowhead sheath I make form Scagel replicas, many good idea for that sheath came out of a small face book group I'm a member of. So yes I feel it is important to listen to the ideas the customers and collectors have to share. After all I make custom knives and they should have a little customer input and bit of a personal touch for them.
 
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