Comparing a few smaller knives and a TIMOS- handmade knife (feature)

[chiral.grolim]

timos- AEBL drop point 7" OAL

I purchased this knife for total $85.25 USD ("lifetime commonsense warranty included") off of the Bladeforums Knifemaker's Exchange direct from the maker, Tim Johnson of Oxford, MA. According to Tim:

It is one of my finest blades to date and will serve you well in the field as well as the kitchen.

It is ~7" full-tang AEB-L - Bohler-Uddeholm martensitic razor-blade steel: 0.67% C, 13.0% Cr, 0.4% Si, 0.6% Mn, 0.02% P, 0.01% S
AEB-L (copied by the SandVik as 13C26) is stainless fine-grain steel with primary carbides no greater than 3 microns, and only 55 secondary carbides per 100 um^2, designed to take a very thin edge without fracture in use. There are custom makers that use AEB-L at ~62 Rc. This knife was hardened and tempered to 60Rc by Peters Heat Treating. http://www.petersheattreat.com/

Since the steel is for shaving, among the first uses I put the knife to was shaving:


(pending upload)

 

[chiral.grolim]

The knife is only 2.72 oz.

The blade is 2.75" from plunge to point, 3.125" along cutting edge, tapering quickly from 1" wide with a dramatic sweep and slight drop-point. It tapers from ~1/8" thick at the spine down to ~0.005" at the edge: 3-4 dps primary grind that appears flat, was ground on a 36"-radius platen. This thinness allows for a true microbevel (~0.010" wide) that the user can establish to his or her angle preference (e.g. 15-dps) with minimal effort... and by "minimal" I mean a single swipe per side along a fine hone or a few swipes on a loaded strop. AEB-L is already quite easy to hone, but any steel taken that thin doesn't require much effort (i.e. metal removal) to keep keen.

The knife has a very fine tip.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The handle is ~4.2", the grip-face (belly) only 3.75" with an inward sweep and ~1" index groove - just long enough to accommodate all 4 fingers of a medium-size (7-7.5) hand. The heel drop could be more dramatic, but along with the tapering neck, chamfered edges, and indexing grooves, the handle is well shaped for comfortable use in a variety of grips.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The heel does press into the hypothenar muscle group on a forward-leaning grip, but the end is chamfered a bit to reduce the point. I may round it some more to improve comfort. The handle is 0.535" thick and tapers nicely into a shelf <1/8" thick at the plunge-line on either side of the blade. It is wide and square enough to prevent unwanted twisting and provide excellent control when twisting is desired.
The scales are stabilized madrone burl with 1500 grit finish that leaves it looking very clean and provides excellent retention though subdued presentation - it isn't as shiny and dramatic as some wood handles, but it also isn't slick. The 0.015" black G10 liners set-off the wood from the polished tang, and all (scales, liners, tang, pins) are perfectly flush, seamless.

 

[chiral.grolim]

There is a large lanyard hole ~3/8" that looks as though Tim intended a tube of some sort (or installed one but it fell out) - the inside is unfinished, rough, the clear scale-epoxy evident in patches. This is similar to the plunge-line which is not perfectly even at the notch-less choil (it is hand-made, what do you expect?) with some epoxy over-flow and dirt settled into the plunge. Again, these are things I may clean-up myself. Tim offered a 7-day money-back guarantee if i thought the purchase unsatisfactory. Could it be nicer? Yes. But for an $80 hand-made knife, I am certainly not unsatisifed, especially comparing it to my $80 Iisakki Jarvenpaa Aito. I knew what I was getting and am happy with it :thumbup:

I bought this knife in part to try AEB-L steel but more because the design 'speaks to me'. The finish isn't perfect, but the blade geometry and handle design loudly proclaim its utility! The handle is just large anough for a full grip, but it brings the index finger and thumb safely and comfortably right to the cutting edge - no ricasso, no unsharpened sectino of blade, no notch - allowing the user maximum force and control over every fraction of every inch of the blade.

While it is not a 'pry-bar' knife-style, the stock thickness will allow for some prying but mostly it keeps the knife well rigid when cutting through thicker or tougher material while the primary grind and very thin edge let the blade slide deep into any material soft enough to take a cut at all, requiring minimal effort.

 

[chiral.grolim]

For reference, a standard utility knife (box cutter) features a razor-blade 0.017" thick with a 0.065" wide bevel, ~8 degrees per side to the apex.

Experience shows that the disposable utility blade's apex deteriorates rather quickly in use. This can be due to poor wear-resistance and low hardness. However if you put a micro-bevel on that utility blade to support the apex, you increase its longevity substantially with only a minimal increase in required force at the apex - 8-dps is too low to keep the tool functioning for an extended period.

The timos- knife has a slightly stouter apex and is only ~ 4-dps behind the microbevel, keeping it thinner than the box-cutter for some 0.18", thereby providing superior strength at the apex and penetration beyond the micro-bevel = superior cutting performance in normal use. Add to this the longer edge-length in the sweep, strength provided by the thicker spine, and superior heat-treatment for a strong apex, you have a knife with much better performance and utility than the "utility" blade for a wider variety of tasks :thumbup:

Of course the box-cutter blade is meant to be short to avoid damaging package contents and it doesn't need a stout blade for strength on such a short length, so thin & light are its forte. The handle is long and wide and comfortably thick with tapering at the head and heel to reduce fatigue in the hand, allow comfortable thumb-placement right behind the cutting edge (for maximum transfer of force), plenty of leverage surface, and easy indexing and control twisting the blade. It would be safer with some sort of index-recession or guard beneath the cutting edge, and such models do exist. The slide-lock is simple, quick, and as effective as it needs to be for the intended purpose of the knife. The thin blade can be easily sharpened or replaced as needed. While the versatility of this knife is limited, it excels where it is useful and is a base standard from which all other knives should be judged.

 

[chiral.grolim]

"Well, for $80, your handmade knife had better out-perform a $5 disposable utility knife!" Perhaps, but how many of your expensive knives are thin enough to out-perform a disposable razor-blade with intact apex being used for its intended purpose? As another point of reference take the similarly priced if not more expensive Spyderco Calypso III:

This Caly III (designed by Sal Glesser, made by Moki Knives in Japan) features a 3" blade with 2.75" cutting edge - less than the timos- with its sweep. The primary bevel angle is ~4-dps, the edge bevel 15-dps, but the edge thickness is ~0.015", 3X thicker (and wider) than the timos-. The Caly III is marketed as a fine cutting tool and 0.015" is actually thin for a production folder, but the comparison in geometry suggests that the Caly III is intended for much rougher use than the timos-. The Caly's cutting performance as felt is significantly lower, requiring much more effot to complete a deep cut through stiff material like wood or cardboard.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The Calypso also is not as comfortable in use, made more dramatic by the increased force required to use it. The blade features a large ricasso that curves with the top of the handle to form an index groove so that users can bring their fingers right to the un-notched blade choil (and even here the grind is not quite perfect). Unlike many Spyderco models, the CalyIII lacks the extended integral guard (a major reason why I would not buy the other models), but the ricasso groove is not very deep so the blade is recessed back further from your finger than the timos-. And since your finger is in the ricasso rather than a nicely formed handle, it is less comfortable to hold here... indeed, MUCH less for a couple of reasons. To increase convenience (and perhaps legality in public carry) it is a folding knife and features a void between the scales for the blade to sit. The edges of the steel liners are quite sharp and can be felt when a tight frip is required, the handle is quite flat and slick (also not so comfortable), there is the pocket clip (actually more comfortable than many others I've used), and there are the TEETH. Spyderco is fond of grinding sharp teeth into grooves meant for your finger. While these teeth certainly prevent skin from slipping out of the grooves, they also require a callous to prevent blisters and discomfort - if you don't have thick calloused skin there already, expect to acquire it or you may, like me, find yourself grasping and using the handle in any way that avoids these vicious grooves.

 

[chiral.grolim]

With that typed, the Caly III is my favorite Spyderco. Great fit&finish, good length, no guard, great blade-shape, light weight (~2.98 oz), easy one-hand operation, the curvature of the handle fits more comfortably than the timos-, and of course the steel: ZDP-189 core, hardened to ~64 Rc (per Spyderco's website) - very strong for cutting tough materials, very wear-resistant for abrasive cutting, it should keep an intact apex much longer than the timos- perhaps in every kind of use :thumpup: How much longer will be the subject of further investigation as I update this review...

 

[chiral.grolim]

... But since it requires so much more effort and discomfort to use compared to the timos-, one would be wise to religate the CalyIII for use where the timos- blade just isn't strong enough or durable enough to keep up, or where one needs a folder rather than a fixed blade . Carving green or soft wood, meat/fruits/vegetables, cutting paper and cardboard and rope/string, etc., in every case the timos- is superior while its edge lasts. And the timos- being thinner and softer, it is much easier to restore to shaving-sharp than the ZDP Caly 8)

 

[chiral.grolim]

Here is a presentation of some other knives for comparison: ESEE Izula, Iisakki Jarvenpaa 'Aito', Benchmade 745 Mini-Dejavoo, Swamp Rat Knife Works 'Rodent Solution'. I will be putting together a review of these knives along with the Muela PIK-AS and Survive! Necker II once the latter arrives.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The Rodent Solution (or 'RS') is a different beast from the rest, with a stock thickness of ~0.165" and weighing 6.4 oz due to the un-reduced tang. It is built for abuse. That typed, the apex-geometry on this one is still 15-dps, 0.030" at the shoulder in the belly.

Made from 60Rc SR101 steel, it is sufficiently robust to handle heavy prying and digging, moderately hard impacts, as well as carving and slicing. However, given the extra weight and thickness, as well as the thick (and quite durable) coating that increases drag, this knife will not perform at the level of the timos- carving and slicing.

The handle is comfortably shaped (I modified this one slightly to better suit my needs) with excellent retention from the 'ribbed' canvas-micarta, the blade offers enough length for most outdoor utility, and the RS features a radius'd spine & pommel - an uncommon feature on most knives but one that improves thumb-comfort and eliminates a stress-point. The integral guard provides a level of safety, the moderate notch in the choil aids sharpening. I like this knife, use it often, and the extra blade-length and handle comfort are definite advantages, but for most (non-abusive) cutting chores it falls well behind the timos-.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The ESEE Izula features a handle and blade each ~1" shorter than the Rodent Solution, making for a knife that is net 2" shorter but of approximately the same stock-thickness and edge geometry - quite 'beefy' for such a little knife (see diagram above). Made of 1095 Steel @ 57Rc, it is a tough knife to meet ESEE's lifetime replacement warranty, but it won't have the apex-strength of the Rodent Solution or the timos-.

Designed as a 'neck-knife' the short profile and scale-less skeletonized tang bring it to ~2 oz naked. The thick stock provides a nice surface for applying thumb-pressure behind the blade which is great since the blade is so thick and the coating creates such drag that it takes a LOT of force to make a deep cut.

The handle is a little too short for a full 4-finger grip in 'medium' hands but the rounded tang prevents discomfort in the pocket of the hand. ESEE offers the Izula II with slightly longer handle if you need more leverage, and they offer micarta scales for more width. Even the simple shoe-string wrap on mine provides sufficient comfort for light cutting and shallow carving.

There isn't much blade on the Izula, but the knife is well designed in the orientation of blade to handle - it has a forward cant such that, with the handle settled in the pocket of your hand, the blade leans over your index fingers to meet the material to be cut, transfering resistance right into the pocket of your hand so that leverage from the wrist is less necessary. Again, the thick geometry certainly increases that resistance to penetration, but the blade's forward lean makes it easier to overcome, less fatiguing. The thick coating gives decent traction for one's thumb, but there is also rounded jimping that not only prevents a slip but also doesn't eat our hand like the Spyderco

The Izula features and small sharpening notch at the choil and a 3/16" ricasso that forms an integral guard under which the handle is grooved back to let the blade lean over the index finger, but this puts your finger further from the edge of the blade.

Overall, I am a fan of the Izula, it is a tough little knife in a light-weight package, but at its size I prefer a thinner, harder (and slicker) blade for most tasks. Again, the timos- is superior for anything but abuse.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The Jarvenpaa 'Aito' is handmade in Finland, a traditional puukko. At its size, it more closely compares to the Rodent Solution than the timos- but has different edge geometry and is a good comparison of another handmade knife of similar price.

Mine features a stacked-leather handle with brass ferrule and pommel, full-length tang visible at the pommel. The handle is just large enough for a full grip in 'medium' hands but users may want to knock the edges off of the brass - these were rather sharp from the factory.

Like a lot of puukkos, the Aito's handle is oval-barrel - a very "neutral" style which means that it is equally uncomfortable or dangerous in a wide variety of grips

It has enough swell to provide plenty of surface for the hand to put pressure on, and the leather has sufficient traction and 'give' to provide moderate comfort... But it is far too round to provide good indexing or control of the blade to twist when desired and not when undesired, the heel drop isn't all that round to prevent discomfort to the hypothenar muscles in a forward grip, there is no hint of a guard or 'bird's beak' - quite the opposite - and handle traction is insufficient to prevent it sliding BOTH forward AND rearward unless a very tight grip is maintained. Under less than ideal circumstances, this handle is downright dangerous!

Again, the Jarvenpaa is a handmade knife, and the finish was quite rough. Besides the brass edges, there were gaps between the handle and ricasso (now filled with epoxy). The spine was/is ridged and rough, evidently untouched after cutting? It is too soft to cut and spark a ferro-rod. The plunge is uneven at the choil and leaves >1/8" unsharpened. The Aito does feature a strong tip for drilling.

The blade length is 3.188", 0.875" wide and ~50/50 saber-grind on 1/8" stock down to a microbevel at <0.010", the primary angle ~8 dps, twice as fat as the timos-. A lot of scandinavian knives are "zero"-grind, meaning that there is no apex or micro-bevel so the apex angle is that same as the primary angle. Well, this knife seems to be 1095 steel (or equivalent) hardened to ~57 Rc at the edge. At 8-dps, it dents, rolls, and tears relatively easily just carving wood (oak) but the thick primary grind provides a lot of strength for prying behind the edge and that steep bevel functions as something of a guide, preventing the blade from cutting deeper than one might desire when carving and whittling, much like a chisel! That typed, the thick primary-grind prevents the blade from cutting deeper without increased force, and the rough spine of the blade is not comfortable for much thumb pressure so this is far from the ideal blade to use making deep cuts into resistant material.

The rugged appearance and traditional style will appeal to many users, there is plenty of blade length (more than the timos-) and a thin enough edge to give the knife excellent cutting utility. It is light-weight (3.5oz) with sufficiently stout handle to reduce fatigue. In fair-weather conditions, it is a fun knife for whittling pine and balsam. But here again the knife falls short of the timos-'s cutting capabilities.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The Benchmade 745 Mini-Dejavoo (discontinued) is not really a "mini" knife except in reference to its larger 4"-blade brother, the 740. I include it here because of its advantages over the Spyderco already presented.

The blade length is 3.25" (- 0.25" sharpening choil) and 0.115" thick with a high saber-grind (only 1/8" flat) down to 0.020" at the edge-shoulder, 15-dps to the apex. while this is only slightly more robust than the Spyderco it is 4X thicker than the timos- and you can feel it! The primary grind is very even but very coarse like the surface of a vinyl record, and this drags audibly when making deep cuts as through cardboard. If one took the time to grind down that surface and thin the edge a few thousandths of an inch to where the Spydie is, the blade could be a very solid performer with 58-60Rc S30V steel. But as is, its performance falls short of the Spydie.

Like the Spyderco, the Benchmade features an excellent leaf-shaped blade with prominent dropped-point to a reasonably thin tip and the belly does not actually sweep up very much so the cutting edge is only 3.125" from heel to tip, noticeably more than the Spydie.

The handle is longer and wider than the Spydie, nicely contoured and much more comfortable in extended use, especially with the complete lack of jimping! The top of the handle forms a slight guard and thumb-ramp, plenty for traction and safety, and lets your fingers get relatively close to the edge while still comfortably situated on the handle, the choil is helpful for sharpening and doesn't interfere with applying force or snag when cutting thumbup. The dropped heel and loveless-style bird's beak succeed and keeping the knife snug in the hand.

The cut-out for the liner-lock is positioned between the index and middle-finger in a normal grip, avoiding concerns of accidental disengagement while providing ease of both openning the deep-set thumb-hole and unlocking when desired, whether right- or left-handed (a surprise to me, ambidextrous liner-lock? :thumbup. The liner-lock feels less secure than the Spydie's back-lock, and detent when closed is rather weak - I may need to bend it a little more - but the tang-interface is well shaped for wear and security. The locking liner is titanium and the other is well skeletonized steel making for a light knife (only 3.5oz) despite the blade size.

The blade sets much deeper in the handle for a MUCH slimmer profile than the Spydie.
The pocket-clip is tip-down right-side only, and it is usually brightly polished but I sent in for a black clip for more discrete carry... I need to do that for the Spydie as well (hate bright clips )...

Anyway, while the Benchmade 745 blade is thicker behind the edge, of lesser steel, and of more coarse finish than the Spyderco CalyIII therefore requiring more effort in every kind of cut, it is much more comfortable in use than the Spydie. The Spydie has better edge geometry, higher fit&finish and quality of materials, is more ambidextrous, tip-up carry, and the lock may be more secure, but it is less comfortable to use and takes up more pocket space while offering less in handle and blade. The timos- offers a more comfortable handle, the best cutting geometry, and the security of being a fixed blade, but it does make a wider+longer profile when sheathed and pocketed

 

[chiral.grolim]

And now a comparison from the kitchen: Wusthof Classic 4" Paring Knife.

This particular knife has seen a lot of (ab)use over the past 6 years (including a "professional" sharpening at a shop in town as a favor from my mother-in-law - a harrowing experience for any knife enthusiast, one i won't allow to happen again). When new, the apex bevel was of similar width to the timos- and ~15-dps, very thin behind the edge. It is also of thinner stock than the timos-, and the reduced width contributes to it being lighter as well. It is a fine knife for my wife and I, neither of us professional cooks, and I especially like the taper of the handle into the blade at the bolster, and the recession of the handle from the blade-edge such the index groove forms an integral guard just as it does on the timos-.

In general kitchen use, the Wusthof is(was) the better performer in terms of initial cutting efficiency and agility - thinner stock means easier deep penetration, and the thinner blade can negotiate tighter turns, the longer straight-edge more reliable in cutting and peeling...

But there are 4 things to note: 1) the Wusthof Classic handle is much less comfortable than the timos- and harder to control (narrow, slick), 2) the thiner blade is less comfortable for exerting thumb pressure, 3) like many un-notched choils (not including the timos-) this blade features an unsharpened section above the bolster-guard, previously almost a full 1/2" but ground down since then, and 4) the Wusthof is only 58Rc X50CrMoV15 steel - a little less carbon and more chromium than AEB-L - and tends to dull rather quickly which may be due to impacting the cutting board or careless use by others in the house whacking it on plates and glasses . I am confident that the AEB-L will hold up better :thumbup:

Are the Wusthof's advantages sufficient to keep the timos- out of our kitchen, or will the comfort and control of the timos- put the Wusthof in second fiddle? Time will tell...

It should be noted that there are other Wusthof paring knives with at least improved handle designs.

 

[chiral.grolim]

As the timos- sees more use, I'll post videos comparing it to the knives featured above, so stay tuned and please leave comments below. Thanks for reading!

 

[timos-]

Thank you for the detailed review! Much appreciated and I am happy you like the knife and especially that you are using it! I am certainly going to take this all into account on the next re-iteration of the design. Free hand grinding that blade on a 36" radius platen was really fun, but pretty rough on the fingertips!

 

[chiral.grolim]

A couple of videos of this knife in use:

My apologies in advance for poor technique and using such hard wood. As stated above, this knife is quite thin at the edge, and as such I am hesitant to use it hard on the oak.

Where it EXCELS is the cardboard cutting, sliding through with an ease i am unused to. As stated above, it is 3X thinner than the CalyIII and that difference is quite palpable in resistance of the material.

The knife also functions well in the kitchen though limited by the width (height) and length. I will see about using this knife the next time I dress-out a rabbit or chicken.

The steel is easy to maintain at such thin geometry, takes an aggressive edge or a fine one for shaving.

 

[timos-]

Great Videos! I hope you dont mind if I link them on my site.
Glad you are having fun with the knife!

-tim