Comprehensive questions. Open carry. Carry methods. LEO input appreciated plz.

[bored2deth]

Hey peoples,

I decided to post some comprehensive, deep questions.

My area's knife laws are annoying.. The laws only speak against concealed carry, and then at school grounds, gov buildings, etc. This, I presume, means open-carry. I'd really appreciate the opinions of police, especially in the eastern coastal states. Also, there is the consideration of "visibility", appearance and image, size, length, cutting-edge length, and the like. Let's say for example, you EDC a knife, a fixed-blade, and an officer is looking at you from your left side (left hip/side visible), but your knife is on your right side/hip, is that considered concealed? Also, what would dictate an intimdating knife? (For me, in my own opinion, it would be something which is obviously quick-access, clip-point, with no retention-straps or clips, all black--handle/sheath/blade--or a dagger. Blade-length, anything six or above gives me pause.) What would dictate a dangerous knife? (again, in my opinion, the above). Also, does the image of the knife have anything to do with it. Say, for example, a knife that is CLEARLY expensive, well-cared for, and attractively built -- say, a good kydex sheath with white micarta scales.

*Also, in my own opinion, I'm more wary, personally, of folding knives..though, only the fast-opening "assisted" variety..now those things scare the living hell out of me. Atleast with a FB you can see the thing!! I'd presume Cops are more wary of them as well? Regular one-handers don't bother me..but those assisted do.

Also, other questions, my work--being professional Woodsman (-_- Yes, a lumberjack.., but I've also got quite a few other skills too which deal with the Outdoors, so Woodsman ) my work DOES require the use of edged-tools..well, besides an axe and chainsaw. I've often needed a knife in my work, and while my multitool has often sufficed, there have been times a tough fixed-blade would have been nice. Often enough, I use a knife to mark a tree, to mark the prefered impact of my first swings. Also, my work is dangerous in the extreme...falling trees, axes, roots to trip over, and chainsaws...not to mention bears and snakes. Does this provide a viable, understandable reason for the tool on hand? (If anyone is curious, yea, I've gotten hurt at work quite a few times.. Nearly chopped off a toe, knocked on the head by debrie from limbs, cut, slashed, etc lol.) Yeah...roots plus chainsaw plus falling tree......fun times.

Another consideration, the knife's retention. If it absolutely REQUIRES two-hands to deploy, and by this I mean that the tension must be adjusted to allow it to be drawn, and then two or more straps undone, and pressure placed on the sheath by the other hand just to deploy the knife. Also, a small tool would likely be required to pull it free.

Also, does the sheath need to be seen, or merely the handle. Does it matter how it is worn, so long as the handle is visible? May the knife be worn in a wallet-like sheath, so long as the handle is clearly visible, and tightly retained. *That gave me a new sheath idea..although, it'd likely backfire on me...last one did...badly burned hands from kydex.

Lastly, if a state has a 4 in or 3 in or such and such limit, does a quarter or half over count? Would it really make that much of a difference?

Thanks in advance, and an extra thank you to any LEOs.

*Got a splitting headache from re-typing this.
**And a big thank you to all LEOs for your service.
***Wrote this out as best I could. Gimme a break, I'm sick as a dog--flu.

 

[shaving sharp]

I am a LEO and all I can offer is this. You will not get any clear answers to your questions because each case will be based on the facts and circumstances of what is going on at the time you interact with the officer. Secondly, each officer has the discretion to handle the situation as they see fit at the time acting within the law. What this means is it is not a whole lot different (for a misdemeanor offense) than a traffic stop. The officer can chose to advise you or charge you.

 

[bored2deth]

Thank you very much for the reply That's about what I figured. Now, if only I could dispel he vague-ness of state law. There is no mention of anything but concealed carry and carry upon/in/around educational/government/etc property. It's a serious headache trying to figure it out. I've searched, had others search, and altogether we found very little information on the subject. 99.9% of the posts I've read on my own states law has been that it is open-carry.

By facts and cirumstances, I presume you mean if the person were causing a scene, aggravating others, threatening, being a nuissance, causing a public disturbance, etc? I assume a person acting with respect in regards to others, in no way causing a disruption of any kind or threat, would be of little bother?

The flu sucks..I swear..I feel like my head is going to fill up with snot and burst...

 

[glistam]

I've interviewed countless LEO and lawyers over the years in trying to address topics like this. The fruits of these labors are in this essay, which I also had reviewed by several officers: http://weaponlaws.wikidot.com

Some of the matters you asked about are not addressed in the essay, so I will elaborate:
-The laws say what is prohibited and (usually) exceptions to those prohibitions. If there is no law expressly stating something is prohibited, it is legal. In your case, if the laws you must follow only state concealed carry and carry on certain property is illegal, and never mentions open carry, open carry is legal on non-restricted property. Simple as that. only exception I can think of is waving a knife around and shouting "I will cut you #$%!", which is classed as assault.
-Concealment is rarely defined in law, but often comes up in case law. I know from case law that the officer simply being on one side of you and the weapon on the other does not count as concealed. If a civilian can walk around you in a circle without knowing what he is looking for and both spot the knife and recognize that it is a knife and not a cell phone, it's open carry.
-99.9% of knife arrests involve the knife carrier doing something overtly moronic to get the cop's attention. This includes getting in fist fights, being drunk and disorderly in public, burglarizing a building, trespassing, threatening your ex-girlfriend, selling drugs, sitting in a car high as a kite screaming about martians, vandalizing a church, etc. (well, you get the idea, and yes these are all real in cases I reviewed).

 

[bored2deth]

Thank you so much!! I've actually gotten a migraine from the bright light and background of my laptop from spending hours in research. Makes me naseous. Lol. Actually, I'd never even considered carrying a fixed-blade at work until recently. I was felling trees on a work sight, and the further I got I began to notice an odor. Bear pee. There were two large male black bears in that area, drawn in likely by the abundance of ripe black berries. (Can't say that it didn't draw my attention...big berries, and sweet too!) (Nearly got in trouble bc I kept stopping to eat the berries....lol). I'm sure the noise of my hacking with a double-bit and the buzz of the chainsaw scared them away. The thought of a tool-knife on my belt seemed to assuage the fears of both my wife and employers. Knife..pfheh..I'd moon the bear..that'd scare it so bad it'd have a heart attack.

Personally, I firmly believe each state should set a clear limit on blade-length, set it at 5, excluding clip-points, and leave it at that..in that sense everyone is satisfied--long enough for hunting/bushcraft, short enough for EDC. Excluding clip-points would see to it that 95% percent of "combat-knives" stayed in the hands they are meant for. By clip-point I mean the swedged-point like that of a Ka-bar, for example.

The only knives, this coming from 17 years of self-defense training and work as a woodsman, that bug me are the assisted/fast/speedy opening knives that pop up into place with just a click. Don't like em'. Also have had many friends whom were LEOs. (Wanted to be one). A fixed-blade isn't squat compared to that, and never will be.

Thank you again!

 

[bored2deth]

Wait a sec....there was some goober sitting in a car, plastered out of his mind, screaming about martians!? Seriously?? Where did you read about that case? Vandalizing a church? When I was about twelve, someone broke into my grandfathers church and destroyed dozens of bibles (red marker ink--I hope, making pentagrams on the front pages), and tore up the pews -- they got arrested for it, and deserved it too.

 

[glistam]

Personally, I firmly believe each state should set a clear limit on blade-length, set it at 5, excluding clip-points, and leave it at that..in that sense everyone is satisfied--long enough for hunting/bushcraft, short enough for EDC. Excluding clip-points would see to it that 95% percent of "combat-knives" stayed in the hands they are meant for. By clip-point I mean the swedged-point like that of a Ka-bar, for example.

I'd make it simpler: Repeal all knife laws, period. They already have done it in Vermont, Arizona and New Hampshire (probably one or two others that I forgot) You can carry switchblades and daggers concealed in these states without a care. And guess what? Statistics show this has had no effect on crime whatsoever! It's like I said in my essay: Carrying a knife is not innately evil. Using it to commit assault, robbery and murder is. For cryin' out loud guns are legal in all 50 states and all but 2 or 3 have civilian concealed carry permits. Guns really are only for killing (though some killing is lawful, like self-defense and hunting) and have no tool use like knives do, but they're allowed. Weirder still is most permits only allow the carry of a gun and not any other weapon like a knife.

Wait a sec....there was some goober sitting in a car, plastered out of his mind, screaming about martians!? Seriously?? Where did you read about that case? Vandalizing a church? When I was about twelve, someone broke into my grandfathers church and destroyed dozens of bibles (red marker ink--I hope, making pentagrams on the front pages), and tore up the pews -- they got arrested for it, and deserved it too.

Oh yeah. The exact case eludes me, but it was in Maryland. When the cops got there they could not find any drugs or paraphernalia on the guy, but he had a bowie knife on the dash. So they charged him with a concealed weapon because it was really all they could charge him with. Gotta love petty technicalities. The kicker is on appeal, the conviction was overturned because the knife was not concealed and clearly visible from outside the car.

The vandalism case was in my town and actually come to think of it, it was a synagogue. Guy sprayed nazi symbols all over and threw loose change on the floor. The investigation identified the perpetrator as a local guy who had pretty severe mental illness, and when he was found he had a small arsenal of pistols and knives on his person and in his car.

 

[bored2deth]

Oh, I know what you mean. People can carry screw-drivers or a wooden-pencil..and a KNIFE scares people? A wooden-pencil can break off..not to mention lead, particles getting into blood-stream, etc. There are people whom practice Martial-Arts and lift weights..that doesn't scare people. I've practiced self-defense for over seventeen years and lifted weights for a good couple years. In truth, I would be most afraid of a gun-concealing man, or a nut with a wooden-pencil long before I'd be afraid of a man with a knife on his hip. Anytime I've seen a man with a knife on his hip, I've smiled and nodded and often said, "That's a nice knife you've got there. Catch any fish this year?" I've found those people to be warm and friendly and sometimes even made a new friend. The only knives that disturb me are the little "assisted" folders. Why larger, fixed-blade knives are an issue is beyond me. Difficult to deploy, clumsy, and slow.

Yeah, the laws to need to be re-examined and evaluated. There is no way to eliminate crime, not completely. But, then, making it so that people go about with nothing to give a predator (mugger, rapist, etc) a second thought can actually cause a rise in crime.. If a bear comes across a deer without antlers..that deer is easier to eat, if a bear comes across a dear with a big pointy rack..well..then the bear must decide..is it worth the risk?

My best advice to people is to watch where you go..practice self-defense, and wait/watch/listen. Plus, don't travel alone. I miss the good ol' days. I truly do. It's funny that people can carry a .45 semi-auto concealed (or at all) (and that is fine, by all means, that's great) but there are those whom can't carry even a 2 in. fixed blade?? I'll stick with self-defense. Two hands, two elbows, two knees, two heels, plus I got a hard head!

Wow..martians..heehee.. I read an article just a minute ago about a man, naked as a jay-bird, whom went into a 7-11 with a huge knife in hand...naked as a jay-bird... Streaker with a knife!

 

[killgar]

You can go insane trying to apply logic and reason to many of the knife laws in this country. Now THAT will give you a migrane.

In regards to your questions, I'm curious to know what state you are in?

No disrespect intended to LEO's, but I wouldn't ask them to explain the law. The police don't decide what is illegal or what actions can or will be prosecuted, prosecuters do. And of course, every cop is different, every stop is different. And how any one particular cop acts towards you might be the result of several unpredictable factors, including if he just had a fight with his wife, etc, etc. The best chance you will have to get a clear explanation and understanding of your local knife laws is to contact a criminal defense attorney in your area that has been in practice for a long time and is quite familiar with the knife statutes. I know we all like easy answers and short-cuts in life, and asking questions on the internet is very easy and convenient, and we do it for so many other things in our lives, but when it comes to the law, and your freedom, you shouldn't just rely on what total strangers tell you on the internet.

To add to that advice, I will suggest that you NEVER make assumptions when it comes to the law. Never assume that a particular knife or the length of a blade, or a particular method of carry is legal. You could wind up in jail for your mistake.

If the law specifically states a length limit, it's a good idea to BELIEVE that they mean EXACTLY what they say. Don't be surprised if you get arrested, prosecuted, and convicted, for carrying a knife with a blade 1/4 inch longer than the legally prescribed length. When it comes to the law, the devil is in the details.

Lastly, don't assume that just because you aren't a criminal or that because you aren't engaged in criminal activity that a cop will let you off with a warning. And don't assume that if you are Mr. Polite and being totally respectfull to the cops that you won't be arrested. Aside from the fact that you will be at the mercy of the cops if they catch you in violation of the law, there is also a financial component involved. Cities and counties make a lot of money from imposing court fines on people arrested for minor offenses. And I don't know of any city or county in the US that doesn't need more money. For example, here in San Diego it is a well known and reported fact that the police no longer give warnings when making traffic violation stops. Instead, EVERYBODY gets a ticket. It's a simple matter of money.

 

[DrFish]

Personally, I firmly believe each state should set a clear limit on blade-length, set it at 5, excluding clip-points, and leave it at that..in that sense everyone is satisfied--long enough for hunting/bushcraft, short enough for EDC. Excluding clip-points would see to it that 95% percent of "combat-knives" stayed in the hands they are meant for. By clip-point I mean the swedged-point like that of a Ka-bar, for example.

The only knives, this coming from 17 years of self-defense training and work as a woodsman, that bug me are the assisted/fast/speedy opening knives that pop up into place with just a click. Don't like em'. Also have had many friends whom were LEOs. (Wanted to be one). A fixed-blade isn't squat compared to that, and never will be.

Ok. You've got me riled. Seriously? You have the same mindset about this as people who are for banning assault weapons because guns that are black and have a flash hider and a pistol grip are too scary.

So 5.5 inch blade is too dangerous but a 4.9 inch one is ok with you? And god forbid the knife has a swedge or a clip point because that would make it look like a KaBar and we all know pure killing machines like those should be restricted to the military only?

Are you one of those people who watched West Side Story and got your jimmies so rustled by the minority gangs and hoodlums having knives that go snap that you feel they have to be outright banned from women's sewing kits (the largest use of switchblades prior to that)??

Do your 17 years of "self defense experience" actually tell you a 3 inch switchblade that makes noise when deployed is more of a threat than a completely silent 5 inch fixed blade?

Are you trolling us or are you serious? Because you're being so inane that I can't tell.

 

[bored2deth]

Hehe..wow. Firs of all, I said 5 as a LIMIT not 4.9..I say 5 as a limit as that should suit many tastes for a knife as a MAXIMUM length for an EDC--bushcrafts, hunters, etc..5 in my own opinion would be sufficient. I said no swedge because of the laws against "double-edged blades", as the swedge CAN be sharpened and to a razor's edge, this could, wether sharpened or not, be construed as a double-edge--as the poster above mentioned the devil is in the detail. I also said to exclude swedges because they seem to scare most sheeple (and I was trying to put it all politely), because is associated with the famous and respected Ka-bar knife. Also, in a technical sense, a sharpened swedge DOES improve penetration by quite a bit. Sheeple see knives, the thought goes through their heads is stabby-stab stabby-stab pokey-poke pokey-poke. The point was to make a knife as least threatening as possible, and thereby avoid the problems caused by misinformation, media, and making them less intimidating to others.

All knives makes noise when opened or drawn, however audible, though the noise can be muffled by covered the locking joint with the hands. My point was that an assisted opening--and I did not in any way specify switchblades--can be concealed within the hand rather easily, and then possibly be deployed with blinding speed before an attempt. I simply did not want to go into pointless detail. Yes, a switchblade has a more audible "click" while a well-oiled assisted opener, as far as the dozens I've looked at and handled, have proven to be quite a bit more quiet. Also, what makes you think an attacker is going to pop it open WHILE approaching it's intended target? Yeah, seventeen years of self-defense taught me to be aware of concealed items in the hands. Also, a fixed-blade will often make more noise--straps, buttons, the sssssshhhhhhk of kydex, the pffffffffffft of good leather--plus a larger item is alot easier to see, while a smaller item will be much more difficult to see. Yeah, seventeen years of self-defense, I could go on and on but I won't. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion.

Btw, I don't troll--if I were, I'd not have posted serious questions or thanked those for whatever answers were offered. Also, no I've never seen Westside story, nor did I say any knives should be banned--not even the assisted knives, I simply said that they are a bit more threatening to me than a fixed blade, nothing more. Oh, btw, for the record, I happen to favor pistol grips on a rifle, as well as a good black coating. Btw, if you'd thought to ask before jumping all over my case, I happen to support both gun AND knife rights, I never claimed anything should be banned, I simply would like the laws to be uniform and more lenient for those whom wish to EDC a knife. Not to even mention my father in law has been trying to get me to get my CCWP, but I don't have the cash to fork over at the moment.

My post was merely to say, "If law permitted, at the LEAST a 5 in. max BLADE length, with the exclusion of swedge-points, I think that most tastes would be satisified--EDC, Hunter, Bushcrafter alike. Excluding swedge-points would make a knife appear less threatening and also avoid any assumptions to the knife's purpose, as the swedge point was made for penetration (sheeple would see:stabby-stab, while a hunter would merely see the means to pop the skin on a deer without puncturing the innards! Although, you can pinch the skin and go from there..but anyway) and could be construed by an officer of the law to be double-edged. And I sure as hell don't want to see guns or knives banned, on a more important note--look at the number of jobs that would be lost! No, I was not at all Trolling, I was trying to politely share my opinions. I don't allow others opinions to bother me, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you, myself, everyone.

 

[bored2deth]

Killgar,

Thank you for your reply I know right? A person could go bonkers trying to figure it all out!! Hehe..I never make assumptions, I've got many LEO friends in my area, and I don't mind pestering them to check out laws for me. I'm not one to make assumptions, I wanted others opinions on the matter. I've always adhered to laws to the letter, makes life easier. I have talked with prosecutors on the matter, and all I've ever gotten is open-carry.
My area's laws are roughly by my memory (I could copy and paste but ) no one may go about knowingly or unknowingly with a bowie, dirk, dagger, etc, etc, concealed on or about their person. May not carry onto education grounds/property, goverment, etc. The laws are only against concealed carry and both concealed and open carry upon education or government property (i.e. schools, courthouses, libraries, and the like).

Buisnesses and buildings in my area also have the right to prohibit carry on their grounds and it is clearly marked, as well as the parks and recreational areas. I wanted to share my opinions and listen to those of others, and to garner any advice or recommendations, which I do, of course appreciate. I find it time spent well to share opinions on laws and regulations with others on this forum. Also, I think that you, Glisten, and myself all brought up good, valid points that others will find useful as well.

 

[DrFish]

Hehe..wow. Firs of all, I said 5 as a LIMIT not 4.9..I say 5 as a limit as that should suit many tastes for a knife as a MAXIMUM length for an EDC--bushcrafts, hunters, etc..5 in my own opinion would be sufficient. I said no swedge because of the laws against "double-edged blades", as the swedge CAN be sharpened and to a razor's edge, this could, wether sharpened or not, be construed as a double-edge--as the poster above mentioned the devil is in the detail. I also said to exclude swedges because they seem to scare most sheeple (and I was trying to put it all politely), because is associated with the famous and respected Ka-bar knife. Also, in a technical sense, a sharpened swedge DOES improve penetration by quite a bit. Sheeple see knives, the thought goes through their heads is stabby-stab stabby-stab pokey-poke pokey-poke. The point was to make a knife as least threatening as possible, and thereby avoid the problems caused by misinformation, media, and making them less intimidating to others.

What I'm saying is that your mindset in posting this is no better than the "sheeple" you refer to. So no swedges. No "combat" style knives for civilians. Just dumb it all down for everyone so nobody could possibly get offended.

This is the problem. Gun people who will scream and shout about the assault weapons ban and gun control who have no problem saying inane things like swedges are too threatening on a knife to be carried legally.

You "firmly" believe that the law should prohibit carry of knives over 5inches or any knife with a swedge. Really? Because it "could" be sharpened? Because it's a "combat" feature?

All knives makes noise when opened or drawn, however audible, though the noise can be muffled by covered the locking joint with the hands. My point was that an assisted opening--and I did not in any way specify switchblades--can be concealed within the hand rather easily, and then possibly be deployed with blinding speed before an attempt. I simply did not want to go into pointless detail. Yes, a switchblade has a more audible "click" while a well-oiled assisted opener, as far as the dozens I've looked at and handled, have proven to be quite a bit more quiet. Also, what makes you think an attacker is going to pop it open WHILE approaching it's intended target? Yeah, seventeen years of self-defense taught me to be aware of concealed items in the hands. Also, a fixed-blade will often make more noise--straps, buttons, the sssssshhhhhhk of kydex, the pffffffffffft of good leather--plus a larger item is alot easier to see, while a smaller item will be much more difficult to see. Yeah, seventeen years of self-defense, I could go on and on but I won't. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion.

You're not making sense. Think.

Assisted/auto openers can be concealed and then deployed too quickly to be legal.

Yet fixed blades are already open and ready to use, a 3-4 inch fixed blade can be easily concealed as somebody with 17 years of self defense experience should be aware, and are silent.

Ohhh you say, they can be silent, who says they're going to open it in front of you.

Then it may as well be a fixed blade. How did it become suddenly more dangerous because it has a spring or button?

Btw, I don't troll--if I were, I'd not have posted serious questions or thanked those for whatever answers were offered. Also, no I've never seen Westside story, nor did I say any knives should be banned--not even the assisted knives, I simply said that they are a bit more threatening to me than a fixed blade, nothing more. Oh, btw, for the record, I happen to favor pistol grips on a rifle, as well as a good black coating. Btw, if you'd thought to ask before jumping all over my case, I happen to support both gun AND knife rights, I never claimed anything should be banned, I simply would like the laws to be uniform and more lenient for those whom wish to EDC a knife. Not to even mention my father in law has been trying to get me to get my CCWP, but I don't have the cash to fork over at the moment.

My post was merely to say, "If law permitted, at the LEAST a 5 in. max BLADE length, with the exclusion of swedge-points, I think that most tastes would be satisified--EDC, Hunter, Bushcrafter alike. Excluding swedge-points would make a knife appear less threatening and also avoid any assumptions to the knife's purpose, as the swedge point was made for penetration (sheeple would see:stabby-stab, while a hunter would merely see the means to pop the skin on a deer without puncturing the innards! Although, you can pinch the skin and go from there..but anyway) and could be construed by an officer of the law to be double-edged. And I sure as hell don't want to see guns or knives banned, on a more important note--look at the number of jobs that would be lost! No, I was not at all Trolling, I was trying to politely share my opinions. I don't allow others opinions to bother me, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you, myself, everyone.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion and everyone's entitled to point out when it's nonsense.

You favor black guns with pistol grips, you favor knife rights, but you then go on to say that swedges and assisted openers are too scary for people?

You're ok with black rifle ownership but then you frame the entire context for carry of a knife in terms of usage for hunting and bushcraft?

I didn't bother asking whether you were for gun and knife rights because it's obvious that you *think* you are.

I said trolling because I really couldn't imagine you being serious with that much cognitive dissonance. It's like going onto an AR-15 forum, asking for legal advice and then saying you think flash hiders should be banned because they have no civilian use and you firmly believe that if we simplified the law and just said all guns with a 16" barrel are ok as long as they don't have certain military features then things would make more sense.


Here's the answer to your question: When it comes down to it, there is NO knife you can carry, open or concealed, that you will not get in trouble for having if the officer feels like calling it a weapon.

This is why the answer to any question about whether you are carrying a weapon is "No, but I do have a knife etc" and the answer to "why do you carry that?" is never "for self defense."

And god help you if you carry in NYC.

 

[bored2deth]

-_- I also have a bad case of the flu, and I'm far from being the most proficient writer and speaker around (very far). I don't share any mindset with people whom want things banned. I simply offered my opinion (I'd be a bit more wary of a man with gun than a man with a knife. Simple fact. I'm not saying that they are too scary..I'm saying that quite a few people are put off by or intimidated by anything that resembles a combat-knife (people typically think stabby-stab..why I don't know). In terms of usage I said, "EDC, Bushcraft, and Hunting", I just did not list only hunting and bushcrat, I listed EDC as well.

Oh, no doubt, it all boils down to the officers opinion, and to the law--never said it didn't. I simply said it'd make things alot easier for alot of people if each state simply placed a reasonable limit on blade length. Having often hunted and dressed game with my grandfather and uncle, I learned early on
that a mid-size fixed-blade can be useful (especially bow-hunting---clearing a shooting-lane), also quite a few bushcraft knives have been seen at a 5 inch blade. I said a 5 inch limit for all three, as in my own opinion, that would be sufficient for most chores--camp/hunting/or edc.

Personally, I think the thought of banning firearms is a notion that can backfire on not only civilians but on the economy as well. Gunsmiths, retailers, firearms/ammo companies would all suffer, and many good hard-working people would lose jobs. Banning firearms won't inhibit crime in the least, if anything, it'd make it alot worse. As I said in one of my posts in this thread, a bear will go more readily after prey which does not in turn present a threat to it, than per say one that can present a threat in return. The same can be said of a knife or gun ban (as I said earlier). Also, I'll mention that animal farmers--chickens, cattle, pigs, sheep--have the need to disuade predators..foxes, wolves, feral or stray dogs, bears..and the same goes for crop farmers, and they rely on a good reliable rifle usually. No, I don't care one bit for the thought of banning knives or firearms, I think in my own opinion that it'd be a severe mistake.

On a side note, DrFish, why did people have problems with black rifles and pistol grips? A rifle is a rifle. They all shoot. I don't see why coloration would make a difference? I'm guessing people have issues with laser sights too? -_- Starting to see what you mean, in my own way. No one, including myself, enjoys being told what they may or may not own..but law is law.

-_- If I ever went to (and I assure you I will never) go to NYC, chances are, knowing my luck, I'd be too busy looking up at the tall buildings and not paying attention and would fall down a manhole. Plus, way to crowded for me and too noisey. Plus, I'd never have enough funds. Btw, I don't carry anything at all. Period. Wallet, keychain, flashlight. Besides that, I don't care for large citys much--I'd get lost. Also, at any time I carried anything it was for work and at the work site. The only thing I've ever carried for self-defense is my hands and feet, never seen the need for anything else.

All in all, I wish it were so that people could have what they want within reason, but laws are laws.. I don't agree with all laws, but like anyone else, I follow them. I guess it boils down to opinions vs opinions. Oh, and I use the term "sheeple" and having learned the term around here somewheres and couldn't think of another term at the time.

 

[foxx]

Thank God I live in a State that allows Conceal Carry of Deadly Weapons. In Kentucky, with a CC permit, I can carry ANY knife, yes ANY knife. I can carry throwing stars, didn't know Ninjas lived in KY, did you?
If Kentucky can get this right, why can't the rest of the country? Maybe we just have enough hunters and outdoorsmen, IDK? Too bad I can't carry any of it at my work, I can barely use a safety blade, can't win em all.
I still need to find some top shelf shurikens and a trench coat that will carry them, and my machetes.

 

[bored2deth]

Good deal, Foxx.

Hehe...any city/state/etc which has a mall, hehe..has it's share of ninja...mall-ninjas that is.. Lol. Ya, I wish all the states had the same law as what you have there. People are going to do stupid things..wether it's a knife, gun, screw-driver, tooth-pick with the lil' umbrellas, a monkey-wrench, or even a tennis ball--people are going to do stupid things..prohibiting one item will simply cause them to find more creative, if nastiers methods and deprive people of a deterrent (if only in the predator's own mind as a "what if that old lady has a gun..I better move on..").. Ya know?