Compression Lock questions:

F

Full Tang Clan

Joined
Jul 22, 2000
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I feel like a bit of a hypocrite for asking lock related questions because I roll my eyes :rolleyes: whenever I hear people taking sledgehammers to test the strength of their folder locks. I mean, if they need something that strong they could just as well buy a fixed blade, right?

That said, I don't own any compression lock knives and was wondering:

1. Why Spyderco hasn't released more compression lock models? I suppose it increases manufacturing costs by leaps and bounds.

2. Are Compression locks that much better than other conventional locks (i.e. liner, lockback).

3. How much stronger are Compression locks over Spyderco lockbacks?

4. What are the tradeoffs, strengths and weaknesses of Compression locks?

FTC
 
I have had two with this lock.The forum Vesuvius(SUCKED)and a Salsa(lock worked good).While the lock is ok I just can't get used to it.It seems like it is designed for the left hand.I might like it a little more if the lock release was on the other scale.IMO the lock back and the liner lock like on the military are better,and I will say that I didn't like liner locks until I got a Military.
 
I have 4 knives with a compression lock, Vesuvious, Gunting, Lil' Teperance and a Ti Salsa. I would say that the Vesuvious, whilst being a very capable lock, is probably not as well implimented as the rest, the rest are great.
Like you once a lock type gets past a certain strength, strength becomes less of a consideration and other things come into play like how ambidexterous the lock is. As it happens the compression lock is fairly ambidexterous, not quite as ambi as a lockback, but a lot better than a liner lock.

1) I think Spyderco do plan on releasing more compression locks. 3 of the more recient releases have been compression locks and the ATR will also be a compression lock.

2) It depends on the definition of "better". In general the compression lock tends to have most of the benifits of other lock types without their weeknesses. For instance it is as slick and easy to open as a liner lock but having the strength of a lock back.

3) It depends on the knives. A compression lock will be much stronger than a lock back housed in an FRN handle. But a lock back housed in a G10 handle with dual steel liners might well give a compression lock housed in an FRN handle with dual steel liners a run for it's money.

4) The strengths of the compression lock are : strength, ease of opening and being fairly ambidexterous.
The weaknesses are : that early models (Vesuvious) did not have too much of a positive closing pressure (newer models like the Ti Salsa are truly excelent), also a compression lock is sometimes not the easiest to disengage, but as weaknesses go a tight lockup is about the best to have :)
 
IMO compression lock isn't that easy to disengage, but then most of the time you're worried about not easy to get it engaged than disengaged, just like a firearm used for SD, you're not worried about how hard it is to get the safety engaged, but you worry a lot about how hard it is going to disengage the safety.
The compression lock is very smooth, just like a liner, and it has a retention of a liner. For those of us who prefer lockbacks a lot more than the liners, they might not like that.
The nature of the design of the compression lock would allow for a lot of strength if built properly. Instead of perhaps having the liner buckle under some extreme force, the part of the liner that gets engaged to the stop pin and the locking surface would likely "pinch" the liner. It's quite likely that although that would render your knife not very workable, it wouldn't be bad enough to cut you bad. But that's just my speculation.
 
Well I don't carry tons of knives on me for different purposes. I carry one knife for the do it all. Personally I don't care for the compression lock compared to all of Spyderco's other locks. Not as user friendly. Might be great for a knife I was carrying for SD and nothing else but for my uses don't like it. Granted I agree with some, the Vesuvius was not the best judge of the lock. Play with a couple and make you own choice on this lock. Will probably end up carrying one and getting used to it when new knives come out with this lock.
Jyork
 
Thanks for the helpful input so far, fellas.

A couple of you guys mentioned that the compression lock can be awkward to manipulate. How so? I do recall that when they first came out, one forumite said that the lock "bit" them upon closing.

I'm rather curious to know -- if Spyderco has done any tests -- how much stronger the compression lock is over Spyderco's conventional lockback; all other things being equal. For example, would the Police model and other larger lockbacks higher up in Spyderco's line-up benefit from a compression lock.
 
Hi there,
I personally don't find the compression lock on my Salsa awkward or difficult to disengage. I was trying to figure out why it would be for anyone and thought maybe the screws on the pivot point were too tight for a one-hand swing-down closing. I find the compression lock is very awesome in many ways: 1. It is very smooth to open and close because it has no spring to be biased to being open or closed; 2. It is supposed to be a very strong lock (stronger than lockbacks I've read somewhere); and 3. I really like it because I can close it one-handed without my fingers ever being in the way (right handed that is). I can see that it would be more difficult to close if there isn't much of a cut-away in the handle for ample space to put your pointer finger on the release (for right handers at least). For left handers it seems that they would have to use their thumb to depress the release and stop the tang/blade on its way closed, and continue to close the blade with their thumb. But alas, maybe a left hander can shed some light on a better way of one-handed closing.
-A
 
I only have one compression lock knife - a Vesuvius. I heard many complaints regarding the Vesuvius, but mine works great. And I mean great :). When I first saw it, I thought it's just a linerlock moved to the other side of the scales, but no, it's totally different. IMO, it's stronger than a lockback and definitely better than a linerlock. The action is smooth, like the linerlocks, but it's solid like a lockback. In order to force a compression lock to close you should break the scales, the stop pin or even the pivot pin first. Theoretically, a lockback may close accidentally if you squeeze the handles. Also a linerlock may disengage if you try some screwing movements. This is quite unlikely to happen to a compression lock.
But about that "pinch" effect, it is true, it may happen, many have stated it. Not to me, it's true, but I presume that's because I don't open it correctly ;)
I think that there are still some refinements to be made to this particular locking system, but hey, it's only two years old!
 
Interesting discussion and thanx for the input. We are always interested in improving what we do and the feedback helps.

The Compression lock is a relatively new lock. How many new locks have been invented in the past hundred years? We are still developing the concept. We think that we've finally gotten the "pinch" out of the design. Refinements will improve the lock significantly in the coming years. Lots of mistakes were made and still are made with the linerlock, which has only been around about 20 years.

We also are developing the "ball bearing" lock for production. We also have another new lock that we've yet to mention.

Regarding the questions;

1. Why Spyderco hasn't released more compression lock models? I suppose it increases manufacturing costs by leaps and bounds.

We are bringing out a few more in the next year. The "ParaMilitary", The Janich/Snody "Yojimbo", The "ATR" has an integral Compression lock. We really don't want to use just one lock. We should have 5 in the works by '04 (lockback, linerlock, Compression lock, Ball bearing lock, and the new one). We also make a non locking folder.

2. Are Compression locks that much better than other conventional locks (i.e. liner, lockback).

Just about any lock will work well if it is properly designed, engineered and manufactured. Once they are dialed in, more or better materials make them stronger. I personally like locks that are put under a short compression. I believe that we can get the greatest amount of reliability and strength in this type of lock. They do take a while to dial in.

3. How much stronger are Compression locks over Spyderco lockbacks?

We can get our in house MBC strength with Lockbacks (Keating Chinook) Compression locks and ball bearing locks.

4. What are the tradeoffs, strengths and weaknesses of Compression locks?

Compression locks require very close tolerances in size and angle, so they are difficult to build. Compression locks are still being refined more than lockbacks or linerlocks so ther is addional R&D development costs. We still have annoyances like the "pinch" to refine out.

We think that we have it developed enough to teach and license custom makers to used the lock. Pat Crawford. Bob Lum and Michael Snody have expressed interest.

sal
 
One point about the Compression Lock that I've not seen mentioned is that its location on the back if the knife makes it very much lees likely to be accidentally released by finger contact than, say, a liner lock. This is especially important to the MBC types, and I do know that Bram Frank has stated that he sees it as an advantage on his Gunting design.
 
To the extent that I've played with compression locks, I'm a fan. So far, the biggest problem is the pinch. Beyond that, I like the whole concept, and don't find that it's a problem manipulating it. So far I haven't found one that seems suspect in any way, though I've heard lots of complaints about the forum vesuvius.
 
Thanks Joe, and everyone else.

Would it be accurate to say that the Compression Lock was in some ways, a top-mounted frame lock? If so, does it offer any inherent advantages or disadvantages over conventional frame locks (like Sebenzas)?
 
Hi FTC. The difference between a linerlock (framelock or otherwise) and a Compressoion lock is the direction of force that is trying to break the lock. In a linerlock (integral frame or separate liner), the direction of force is linear, back towards the rear of the knife. In the Compression lock, the direction of force is upwards to the stop/anvil pin. When a linerlock breaks, it first bends, then pushes the handles apart to break. When a compression lock breaks, it either shears the lock vertically, or blows the stop pin/anvil out through the top of the knife.

sal
 
hi Sal, regarding how strong the compression lock was compared with the lockback, i was told that the compression lock can hold up about 600 lbs, if that makes sense. it that accurate?

i only have one compression lock knife, the Gunting. IMO i find it completely fine to handle with, it is different from your run of the mill locks, but it just takes practice to use it. i do find it safer than a lock back because i was actually using both my Native and Police to carve a pumpkin this weekend. as i was trying to saw off the top part, i realized that if i gripped the knife at a certain angle, the lock could have easily been released. and in the midst of all that slipperyness, i could have easily cut myself. (nothing new)

also, the compression lock is easier to clean. i'm constantly struggling to keep my lockbacks well lubed and lint free. i literally sit there for an hour just maintaining then, but it's kinda fun to do it so i don't mind. it's like therapy! :D

anyway, my two cents

aXed
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser

....
We think that we have it developed enough to teach and license custom makers to used the lock. Pat Crawford. Bob Lum and Michael Snody have expressed interest.

sal
Click to expand...


Sal - bringing this one up - cause I really want to see this happen...have other makers apart form this fine group showed any interwest?

can it be licensed like the hole to others as well?

any news on these fine makers plans to use it??
 
All locks pretty much work in the same way. There is the blade tang an anchor point on the handle (anvil) and something to fill the void between the anchor point and the blade tang that can be moved in and out of this void.

When you think about a liner lock as if it is a compression lock you can understand why the compression lock is truly better. On the liner lock the anvil is the point on the liner where the cut to create the locking leaf ends, from this point the force produced when forcing the blade closed is transfered through the remaining part of the liner into the rest of the liner and handle. (producing a force of tension between the pivot and the non locking part of the liner/handle).

The problem with this arrangment is the direction of the force being applied in relation to the bending action of the locking leaf, and the length of the locking leaf that is under compression, and the lack of a solid and dedicated anvil.

The compression lock reduces the length of the locking leaf that is under compression, provides a dedicated anvil, and allowes the force to be transfered perpendicular to the leaf's bending action.

The compression lock is going to be supior to a lockback mechanism for a variety of reasons but one important advantage it has is the ability to self tighten over time like a liner lock.

When comparing the Compression lock to an Axis style lock, they both have their advantages, the compression locks main advantage would be its simplicity, and it is probably easier to integrate into liner lock style designs. The Gerber bolt action almost works exactly like the compression lock except that a bolt is used to fill the void between the anvil and the blade tang instead of a locking leaf.

I would be very excited to see what custom makers will due with the compression lock, since the more complex manufacture of axis style locks is probably beyond the scope of a "custom knife".
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser
1. We should have 5 in the works by '04 (lockback, linerlock, Compression lock, Ball bearing lock, and the new one). We also make a non locking folder.

sal
Click to expand...

Doesn't the frame lock that is going to be used on the SS cricket make it six locks, or are you going to use a liner lock on that one?
 
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