Anyone have any opinions on this. I know its first offering was on the Gunting. Anyone have a Vesuvius? Im more interested in the latter as the Gunting appears to be exclusively a defensive knife. I like a little utility. I'm looking at the Vesuvius for (brace yourselves) my FIRST Spyderco. Any opinions would be appreciated.
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Compression Lock??
- Thread starter dragon2
- Start date
I have a Gunting, don't have a Vesuvius, but I'm pretty sure that the Vesuvius is just a mirror image of the Gunting lock.
(Incidentally, I used a Gunting as a utility knife -- works pretty well).
Anyway, the lock is pretty darn good. Simple to use, very very strong (at least, as far as I can tell.) That's all I want out of a lock, really.
However, I have heard two problems (I did a /lot/ of archivereading on this) -- one person said that his failed to engage because some gunk had gotten behind the spring (or whatever the term is -- the piece of the liner that moved over), and one person said that he kept getting pinched by the lock opening (I /think/ this was a Vesuvius).
My Gunting developed slight front-to-back blade play -- I don't know if this is normal or not.
But I'd take a compression lock over a lockback or a liner lock any day, and I'd probably even pick it over an axis lock or a frame lock.
Good luck.
(Incidentally, I used a Gunting as a utility knife -- works pretty well).
Anyway, the lock is pretty darn good. Simple to use, very very strong (at least, as far as I can tell.) That's all I want out of a lock, really.
However, I have heard two problems (I did a /lot/ of archivereading on this) -- one person said that his failed to engage because some gunk had gotten behind the spring (or whatever the term is -- the piece of the liner that moved over), and one person said that he kept getting pinched by the lock opening (I /think/ this was a Vesuvius).
My Gunting developed slight front-to-back blade play -- I don't know if this is normal or not.
But I'd take a compression lock over a lockback or a liner lock any day, and I'd probably even pick it over an axis lock or a frame lock.
Good luck.
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- May 5, 2000
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I pass by the factory on my way to work, so I've had the opportunity to toy with them all. I don't own a compression lock-equipped knife yet, but I own all the other kinds. So...
In my opinion, it's the logical evolution of the linerlock. The way it locks up is a lot safer, stronger, and just plain smarter than a linerlock. "Strength," for what it's worth, is tremendous. More important than strength is reliability (will it unlock when you don't want it to?) and the compression lock is good here too--better than a linerlock. It seems better equipped to deal with the two main causes of unintentional release: torquing and disengaging with your fingers. The latter could be improved even more with different lock placements, I'm sure.
My only problem with the compression lock--and the one issue that keeps it a step behind the Axis lock--is the way it holds the blade in the handle when the knife is closed. It's no better than a linerlock in this area; a ball detent is used to keep the blade in there. This has always seemed like an afterthought to me; it's the only means of keeping a blade closed that doesn't use the direct tension of the lock to keep the blade shut over a reasonable arc of movement. Think about how a lockback uses its backspring tension to keep a blade shut over about 20 degrees of movement. The Axis lock does the same thing, but much more smoothly. This is a safety issue that goes along with how well a knife keeps a blade open.
In my opinion, it's the logical evolution of the linerlock. The way it locks up is a lot safer, stronger, and just plain smarter than a linerlock. "Strength," for what it's worth, is tremendous. More important than strength is reliability (will it unlock when you don't want it to?) and the compression lock is good here too--better than a linerlock. It seems better equipped to deal with the two main causes of unintentional release: torquing and disengaging with your fingers. The latter could be improved even more with different lock placements, I'm sure.
My only problem with the compression lock--and the one issue that keeps it a step behind the Axis lock--is the way it holds the blade in the handle when the knife is closed. It's no better than a linerlock in this area; a ball detent is used to keep the blade in there. This has always seemed like an afterthought to me; it's the only means of keeping a blade closed that doesn't use the direct tension of the lock to keep the blade shut over a reasonable arc of movement. Think about how a lockback uses its backspring tension to keep a blade shut over about 20 degrees of movement. The Axis lock does the same thing, but much more smoothly. This is a safety issue that goes along with how well a knife keeps a blade open.
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- Feb 23, 1999
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I'm the guy that had the compression lock on my Gunting fail to engage. This happens when the liner fails to move away from the scale. Sticky substances can apparently cause this problem. It is solved by prying the liner away from the scale so it is again free to move.
This is a real failure mode for this type of lock. It is only a matter of time before someone else experiences it.
This is a real failure mode for this type of lock. It is only a matter of time before someone else experiences it.
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- Feb 23, 1999
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I was not able to identify an adhesive substance when I examined the knife, so the sticky stuff is just a hypothesis. The liner would not separate very much from the scale, and an adhesive between the scale and the liner could have caused this.
When the failure to engage first occurred I noticed that the blade appeared to lock, because there was a very small motion of the liner which allowed a tiny bit of the liner to engage the blade. However, a couple of pounds of pressure on the blade would cause the liner to move back and the blade to fold.
I did use loc-tite to secure the pivot pin after I adjusted the tension. I may have allowed it to dry with the knife in a closed position. If loc-tite seeped between the scale and the liner and this could have prevented free motion of the liner. If this is true then I carried and used the knife for a month or more thinking it had a secure lockup when it did not.
After I pried up the liner the lock appeared to function well again. On one occasion since then the lock again failed to engage, and I have not used loc-tite since the original failure.
I do use the knifefor utility purposes, so it is regularly exposed to apple juice and similar substances.
When the failure to engage first occurred I noticed that the blade appeared to lock, because there was a very small motion of the liner which allowed a tiny bit of the liner to engage the blade. However, a couple of pounds of pressure on the blade would cause the liner to move back and the blade to fold.
I did use loc-tite to secure the pivot pin after I adjusted the tension. I may have allowed it to dry with the knife in a closed position. If loc-tite seeped between the scale and the liner and this could have prevented free motion of the liner. If this is true then I carried and used the knife for a month or more thinking it had a secure lockup when it did not.
After I pried up the liner the lock appeared to function well again. On one occasion since then the lock again failed to engage, and I have not used loc-tite since the original failure.
I do use the knifefor utility purposes, so it is regularly exposed to apple juice and similar substances.
Try Spydercos website. They probably have a diagram there. Basically, as I understand it, there is a liner w/ a small rectangle of brass brazed onto it. When the blade is opened, this piece of brass becomes wedged between the tang of the knife and the stop pin. The brass is in compression, thus the name. One of the members who has a gunting or vesuvius can probably be more accurate, but since I posed the question, I felt that I should answer.
mschwoeb
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The liner lock's promise of smooth action, reliability, and strength might ultimately be fulfilled by the compression lock. It's not been out long enough to come to any firm conclusions yet, but reports on the compression lock's reliability have been very good. Certainly, the lock on my Vesuvius is promising. The design seems to nicely solve the liner lock's and frame lock's problems with torquing and spine pressure.
On the downside, Shmacky's point about the ball detent is valid -- generally speaking, this sytem doesn't work as well as a spring to keep the blade closed. Also, I'm the guy who keeps getting his palm pinched, it does get irritating.
By and large, I expect this lock to become a fave as I get more knives with it and test it more.
Joe
On the downside, Shmacky's point about the ball detent is valid -- generally speaking, this sytem doesn't work as well as a spring to keep the blade closed. Also, I'm the guy who keeps getting his palm pinched, it does get irritating.
By and large, I expect this lock to become a fave as I get more knives with it and test it more.
Joe
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- Jun 26, 2000
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- 845
Hey guys,
I don't believe that the "G" uses a ball detent at all. The blade is held in the closed position by the compression liner as well. It fits into the small angle cut in the choil area of the blade when closed.
Watch the liner from the back of the knife as you close it slowly. You'll see it fit into the cut out.
As a bona fide Guntaholic, I haven't had any problems with the compression lock at all. I'd love to see it on other designs. The type of stress that my drone goes through would be considered serious abuse on any other design that I can think of. The blade still locks up tight every time. And I've had my "G's" longer than most.
The loc-tite hypothesis may be the best explanation. I have had some raspberry jam (long story) on the drone that didn't cause a problem. Maybe if I left the jam on longer?
Has the failure to lock repeated itself at all, or was it an isolated incident?
I don't believe that the "G" uses a ball detent at all. The blade is held in the closed position by the compression liner as well. It fits into the small angle cut in the choil area of the blade when closed.
Watch the liner from the back of the knife as you close it slowly. You'll see it fit into the cut out.
As a bona fide Guntaholic, I haven't had any problems with the compression lock at all. I'd love to see it on other designs. The type of stress that my drone goes through would be considered serious abuse on any other design that I can think of. The blade still locks up tight every time. And I've had my "G's" longer than most.
The loc-tite hypothesis may be the best explanation. I have had some raspberry jam (long story) on the drone that didn't cause a problem. Maybe if I left the jam on longer?
Has the failure to lock repeated itself at all, or was it an isolated incident?
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2000
- Messages
- 845
Joe,
The reason your hand may be getting pinched with the Compression
lock in the Vesuvius is that it's a mirror image from the Gunting. All Spydies except the new Lynx(or whatever it's being called now) for Tim Wegner and the Gunting series will have the "pinch your hand" compression lock. It's the left handed lock in a right handed knife. The hand works more naturally when bringing the thumb and forefinger together to disengage the lock as well.
Dragon2,
There is no part BRAZED onto the lock. The liner finger is one piece of full-hard steel. It fits INTO the blade on a radiused ramp, and it is compressed (hence the name) against a hardened anvil pin in the back of the knife. Steel would have to shear off for it to fail.
Some have gotten loc-tite into the liner side so that it was loc-tited OPEN.
My $0.02
L8r,
Steve
The reason your hand may be getting pinched with the Compression
lock in the Vesuvius is that it's a mirror image from the Gunting. All Spydies except the new Lynx(or whatever it's being called now) for Tim Wegner and the Gunting series will have the "pinch your hand" compression lock. It's the left handed lock in a right handed knife. The hand works more naturally when bringing the thumb and forefinger together to disengage the lock as well.
Dragon2,
There is no part BRAZED onto the lock. The liner finger is one piece of full-hard steel. It fits INTO the blade on a radiused ramp, and it is compressed (hence the name) against a hardened anvil pin in the back of the knife. Steel would have to shear off for it to fail.
Some have gotten loc-tite into the liner side so that it was loc-tited OPEN.
My $0.02
L8r,
Steve